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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

RChildress107 said:
One of whom was a 4* PG and played like a high end 4* PG last year and a low end 4* PG this year.
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Yeah, he's recruited one decent starting guard in four years and anyone who watches Wake basketball on a regular basis sits there and says, "WTF is that guy doing ?"
 
RChildress107 said:
I think some coaches have the ability to get teach/manage/motivate high talented players but that ability doesn’t translate to less talented players. I’m confident Tony Bennett could coach the worst players in the 12 year old YMCA league to a championship. Most college coaches, even good ones, couldn’t.
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And maybe it’s more accurate to say that Manning needs his talent to define their own roles. Something that could be said of Dino as well. When he had a clear #1 and #2 last year the results were pretty good. When that became less clear this year Manning seemed unable to define roles for everyone.
 
PhDeac said:
I don’t feel pretty good that Manning will “keep recruiting” that level of player.
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Existing data says he can do it. 2019 class will be a significant data point. Will it be more like 2018 or 2016? Right now it is too early to tell.
 
RChildress107 said:
I think some coaches have the ability to get teach/manage/motivate high talented players but that ability doesn’t translate to less talented players. I’m confident Tony Bennett could coach the worst players in the 12 year old YMCA league to a championship. Most college coaches, even good ones, couldn’t.
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So it comes down to this: Manning can't be judged as a coach until you've seen him coach some subjective level of talent that you have in your mind. Meanwhile, I and others believe he can be judged relative to the talent he has and the results he's displayed over the previous four seasons. The problem with your theory is that talent is not a guarantee. An injury, transfer, etc, etc just extends the time that a coach can be judged. Most thought year 4 was the year to judge Manning from the start. Then he "overachieved" in year 3 and took a huge step back in year 4, so the target changes and he can't be judged until year 5. I get that you've drawn a line in the sand for next season, but if we have a few transfers and our freshmen don't prove to be as talented as we hope, it means we may Manning without you ever really deciding whether he was a good coach or not over the course of 5 seasons. And when you do finally make your decision, you'll be making it by heavily weighting a single season out of five, which could be an anomaly.

I just don't buy into the idea that there must be X level of talent, where X is not easily defined, before we can decide whether a coach can coach worth a damn.
 
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RChildress107 said:
And maybe it’s more accurate to say that Manning needs his talent to define their own roles. Something that could be said of Dino as well. When he had a clear #1 and #2 last year the results were pretty good. When that became less clear this year Manning seemed unable to define roles for everyone.
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All you just said is that his teams are better when they have more talent.
 
Deaconblue said:
Existing data says he can do it. 2019 class will be a significant data point. Will it be more like 2018 or 2016? Right now it is too early to tell.
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Existing data has a few data points. It doesn't say he can do it. It doesn't say he can't. It's absolutely inconclusive.
 
BiffTannen said:
Yeah, he's recruited one decent starting guard in four years and anyone who watches Wake basketball on a regular basis sits there and says, "WTF is that guy doing ?"
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We’ve said that about every starting guard we’ve had for the last twenty years except Chris Paul. But guard depth is a legitimate criticism, although given Manning’s propensity to go small (overstated I think but definitely a thing) a lack of guard depth next year might not be a bad thing.

I still think Chaundee is going to have a good year next year.
 
tigerswood said:
RJ, please expand more upon your intimate knowledge (from 2500 miles away) of how Wellman has "botched" the Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart hires. Thanks in advance.
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I've had personal relationships (as have many people) with people 5000, 10,000 mile and further away. What does distance have to do with anything?
 
BiffTannen said:
All you just said is that his teams are better when they have more talent.
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That’s true of any coach. But I think (worry) that Manning would struggle with a team like 2009 where there wasn’t a clear #1 and the players knew it. I think he would have done well with the 05 team where there was a clear #1.
 
RChildress107 said:
We’ve said that about every starting guard we’ve had for the last twenty years except Chris Paul. But guard depth is a legitimate criticism, although given Manning’s propensity to go small (overstated I think but definitely a thing) a lack of guard depth next year might not be a bad thing.

I still think Chaundee is going to have a good year next year.
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incredulous.gif
 
RJKarl said:
I've had personal relationships (as have many people) with people 5000, 10,000 mile and further away. What does distance have to do with anything?
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Fine - remove the distance. The request still remains. Are your personal relationships here with Wellman, Stevens, Smart, or a close friend/family member of any of the three?
 
The answer would be yes to extremely close associate. Who has never been wrong in anything they have told me.
 
tigerswood said:
Fine - remove the distance. The request still remains. Are your personal relationships here with Wellman, Stevens, Smart, or a close friend/family member of any of the three?
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A relationship almost had.

In all seriousness though, RJ is snapchat buddies with Shaka's wife.
 
Based on the absurd bullshit that RJ posts daily, the idea that he's being fed information by an insider, or that he has the ear of an actual insider, should be taken with a mountain of salt.
 
RJKarl said:
The answer would be yes to extremely close associate. Who has never been wrong in anything they have told me.
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Lol. On the very outside chance that said person isn't a figment of your imagination, they've told you a bunch of things you have absolutely no way to verify. They've never been wrong...or right.
 
RacerDeac said:
So it comes down to this: Manning can't be judged as a coach until you've seen him coach some subjective level of talent that you have in your mind. Meanwhile, I and others believe he can be judged relative to the talent he has and the results he's displayed over the previous four seasons. The problem with your theory is that talent is not a guarantee. An injury, transfer, etc, etc just extends the time that a coach can be judged. Most thought year 4 was the year to judge Manning from the start. Then he "overachieved" in year 3 and took a huge step back in year 4, so the target changes and he can't be judged until year 5. I get that you've drawn a line in the sand for next season, but if we have a few transfers and our freshmen don't prove to be as talented as we hope, it means we may Manning without you ever really deciding whether he was a good coach or not over the course of 5 seasons. I just don't buy into the idea that there must be X level of talent, where X is not easily defined, before we can decide whether a coach can coach worth a damn.
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I think X is way easier to define than you think it is and even if it’s not I feel confident that our talent has been <X. My expectations weren’t pushed back a year and if a coach can’t put a top half of the ACC talented level team on the court in the first place then the question becomes irrelevant.

I’ve been honest about Manning’s failure this season. Much more honest than most of the board has been about his success last season. If the 15 and 16 classes had been reversed we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

There is a reason why my expectations for next season don’t include a caveat for injuries or failure of talent to live up to expectations. It’s on Manning. He built the team back up from a dismal level on paper, with some mild success along the way, now it’s time to see what he can do with it.

I’m confident the results will be there next year. I’m less confident that he can sustain or build on that (2019 class will say a lot) or that our AD is capable of moving on in that situation (State is actually an applicable example here).
 
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