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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Wellman won’t be able to sell this charade to donors at some point. I guess that’s what we all have to wait for? I don’t know anymore. I’d just rather have an actual reason for optimism vs. half baked talking points

DCDeac, how should I feel about this?
 
Even when [Redacted] would pull off an upset it was still sad.
Yup. At least I like Danny as a person and wouldn't mind him sticking around if he were actually capable. But, he's not. At this point in the Manning era, I am struggling to get very excited about occasional upsets for fear that it ends up being the win that buys him another year and prolongs the inevitable.

The sunshine types seem to trust that Manning must have exceptional results next year to keep from losing his job. I don't trust that's true.
 
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Wellman won’t be able to sell this charade to donors at some point. I guess that’s what we all have to wait for? I don’t know anymore. I’d just rather have an actual reason for optimism vs. half baked talking points

DCDeac, how should I feel about this?

I mean, I'd just about echo Creamy's post at this point. Although if we really come up with nothing on the transfer market and our key bigs are Sarr, Okeke, and Lorng... It's not just a bad year that will hurt. I'm far more concerned that Manning gets fired next year and once again Wellman is hiring a replacement. I'm more paranoid than most about this plan to go grab some "up-and-comer" as if that's something Wellman can predict. To me there's such a high likelihood that we end up with someone who can't recruit elite players to Wake and we're back to the "give them 4 years to build a program" stuff.

I still can't believe Doral left to go play in the G-League. I just can't relate to that decision. I'd have given anything to play basketball in the ACC, hell I went to walk-on tryouts. If Craw hires an agent I'll be fully beaten down.
 
Creamy and DC, what changed? You’re joining people DC was making fun of literally hours ago.
 
My name is CreamyGoodness and this is my story.

I have always been part of a brigade of sunshine. Sunshiny vibes and joyful hypothetical scenarios of cutting down nets is my MO.

At this time last year, I was confident that Danny would bring us to great heights.

I'm here to say that I'm converting to the dark side. I told myself that if indeed we "lost a decade" of Wake hoops then I would give up. Well folks, here we are.

Unless Danny pulls one more miracle and/or Hoard is a top 5 player in the country next season, we will have lost an entire decade.

My Creamy vibes are dry....dry and salty.

About where I’m at as well. I’ll never act like as much of a miserable ass as a good amount of people here but my hope and faith has almost completely shattered. My hope now is that Wellman will not be hiring the next basketball coach.
 
About where I’m at as well. I’ll never act like as much of a miserable ass as a good amount of people here but my hope and faith has almost completely shattered. My hope now is that Wellman will not be hiring the next basketball coach.

So what changed in the last few days?
 
About where I’m at as well. I’ll never act like as much of a miserable ass as a good amount of people here but my hope and faith has almost completely shattered. My hope now is that Wellman will not be hiring the next basketball coach.
QFP.
 
So what changed in the last few days?

Not necessarily the last few days, and not all that influenced by this last year’s shittiness either. My main concern, as I’ve expressed a couple times lately, are that our recruiting for 2019 seems to be dipping big time - and recruiting is over half the battle imo - including 2018 grad transfers. Now, I’m really excited for this coming class and think both Hoard and Mucius will be studs, but our program cannot afford another dud class like 2016.

I think really where my hope is waning is that this next season is such a huge wild card in my opinion. We could very well finish anywhere between 13ish and 21ish wins, but I cannot say with certainty I think it’s more likely we finish toward the upper end because we have so many unknowns as a team. Is Crawford going to be good Crawford? Are we going to play an optimal lineup of craw, Brown, Mucius, Hoard, Sarr / Craw, Chill, Brown, Hoard, Sarr with Mucius off the bench or is this smart guy going to take up TT minutes? Also maybe reading this board might have a solid effect on that as well. Before Doral left I was pretty certain we’d finish toward 20-22 wins but without him I’m afraid of mediocrity.
 
Also, I’m posting at the gym between games so if some of that was jumbled or confusing I apologize.
 
I was imagining what I would do if we started 1-2 next season. I realized that making a statement can get expensive
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Creamy and DC, what changed? You’re joining people DC was making fun of literally hours ago.

Primarily it's not much of a change. I posted months ago that I thought the likely most successful path for us involving Manning was for him to get us to a talent baseline more in line with the history of Wake, and then for him to be replaced by Wellman's successor. I'll remain in complete disconnect with those who seem incapable of admitting that Manning inherited a mess, but had Collins and Dinos stayed could very well have been a flawed coach with a big name who got us 2 NCAA bids in 4 years post-[Redacted]. In that world Doral likely stays to join Hoard and everything is different, but that's the business.

Secondly, even with Woods exit I still thought we could be a bubble team. Add an Arians-like transfer and we might have a really fun season. I absolutely thought Moore and Craw were purely testing the waters and were coming back for a big senior year, so that was a shock. I don't care about the other transfers so much since their backup-level guys and they leave all the time for more minutes in lesser programs, but I think losing Moore will be just like losing Dinos last year. I see Sarr as another full season away from being a starter despite his ceiling, and the Okeke/Lorng combo is real bad.

So it's just the combination of bad news on the transfer rumor mill, and the fact that critical transfers became the difference between a passable season and a horrid one, not a good season and potentially a really good one. For a few days it was sounding positive from the boards, and from a few folks I know closer to Wake, that we were likely getting the guys we needed, but that optimism has quickly waned.

Craw/Chill/Brown/Hoard is still a solid core group of players, but you simply can't stick them with a couple of Terrence Thompsons and hope to finish .500 in the ACC. I feel bad that Crawford's senior year might play out like that, it sucks that the staff lost Doral to what is likely a pretty poor decision, and it's not going to do much to revive our fanbase when Wellman goes back to the [Redacted] plan to replace Manning.

But hey, it's basketball. You just need 5 guys who can play and for Hoard to be a legit star and suddenly everything's different. Tack on an 8 and 8 PF who can set a great screen and play defense and it's another 180. There's still at least some potential out there, but we just feel a hell of a lot closer today to the ultimate nightmare of Manning not making it long enough for Wellman to retire.
 
You can't have dumpster fire seasonS and expect it to not hurt recruiting.

If Danny Manning was a good coach, he wouldn't have lost 19 or more games 3 times with the talent he has had here.
 
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Primarily it's not much of a change. I posted months ago that I thought the likely most successful path for us involving Manning was for him to get us to a talent baseline more in line with the history of Wake, and then for him to be replaced by Wellman's successor. I'll remain in complete disconnect with those who seem incapable of admitting that Manning inherited a mess, but had Collins and Dinos stayed could very well have been a flawed coach with a big name who got us 2 NCAA bids in 4 years post-[Redacted]. In that world Doral likely stays to join Hoard and everything is different, but that's the business.

Secondly, even with Woods exit I still thought we could be a bubble team. Add an Arians-like transfer and we might have a really fun season. I absolutely thought Moore and Craw were purely testing the waters and were coming back for a big senior year, so that was a shock. I don't care about the other transfers so much since their backup-level guys and they leave all the time for more minutes in lesser programs, but I think losing Moore will be just like losing Dinos last year. I see Sarr as another full season away from being a starter despite his ceiling, and the Okeke/Lorng combo is real bad.

So it's just the combination of bad news on the transfer rumor mill, and the fact that critical transfers became the difference between a passable season and a horrid one, not a good season and potentially a really good one. For a few days it was sounding positive from the boards, and from a few folks I know closer to Wake, that we were likely getting the guys we needed, but that optimism has quickly waned.

Craw/Chill/Brown/Hoard is still a solid core group of players, but you simply can't stick them with a couple of Terrence Thompsons and hope to finish .500 in the ACC. I feel bad that Crawford's senior year might play out like that, it sucks that the staff lost Doral to what is likely a pretty poor decision, and it's not going to do much to revive our fanbase when Wellman goes back to the [Redacted] plan to replace Manning.

But hey, it's basketball. You just need 5 guys who can play and for Hoard to be a legit star and suddenly everything's different. Tack on an 8 and 8 PF who can set a great screen and play defense and it's another 180. There's still at least some potential out there, but we just feel a hell of a lot closer today to the ultimate nightmare of Manning not making it long enough for Wellman to retire.

We clearly disagree on a lot, but I'm genuinely curious on how you came to this conclusion. Mind sharing your thought process?
 
We clearly disagree on a lot, but I'm genuinely curious on how you came to this conclusion. Mind sharing your thought process?

First, it's a sad state of affairs when "bubble team" is some unreachable thing that needs justification to consider. We won 2 ACC games then got our named called on Sunday the following season. It's a pretty fine line, and while reasonable people can disagree, I think trading Dinos for Thompson was that line this year.

I think Chill is pretty underrated by the boards in general, his conference per 40's aren't as far off from Crawford as some might think. We have depth to cover losing a guard even if it was Woods instead of Crawford, and a legit 5 reasonably looking at a season of 14/12 or so in Doral. I've watched enough of Hoard to believe he can easily play the 4 or the 3 and will be a difference maker. I get that nobody cares about defense, but exchanging Woods/Wilbekin/Thompson for more of Craw/Brown/Hoard is a huge defensive upgrade. A top 6 of Craw/Brown/Chill/Hoard/Moore/Mucius with Sarr and maybe a sharpshooting grad transfer... If that's not a bubble team then Manning's earned his exit for sure.

Losing Doral really screws things up. The only mitigating factor is how weak the ACC (and college basketball in general) is when it comes to true centers. UVA just won an ACC title with stiffs at the 5 spot so it can be done.
 
thompson instead of dinos was the difference? well that’s just bullshit.
 
How bad can this actually get? How will a 2019-2020 team look at WF? Hoard is now a consensus 5 star and it is reasonable to expect he may be a one and done at Wake. Couple this with the fact the staff currently has no 2019 commits and after listening to the latest info given on the BSD podcast, it's not very promising. It now appears that convincing solid grad transfers to play for the Deacs is no easy task. I'm not sure how many more years of irrelevance this fan base can take, but it sure looks like there are more to come.
 
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