Danny Manning replacement search thread

[Shorty]

Wichita State pays Marshall $3.5 million a year for the next 3 years (#13 in a college basketball; the highest salaried coach not in a Power V conference), but his buyout is small (less than $500K). Marshall had the leverage when he negotiated his extension. So, WF would likely have to offer more than his annual salary (probably in the 5+ years at $4 million per year range), but WF/Marshall would not have to pay a hefty buy-out. https://watchstadium.com/college-basketball-coaching-salary-and-buyout-database-for-2019-20-season-10-24-2019/

It gets down to Marshall’s motivation to leave Wichita, not his buyout. Other than a lot of money, why would he leave a situation like he has in Wichita to coach an historically mid level ACC team?

He would have to think he can turn a program that is basically a Duke/UNC wannabe into an actual Duke or UNC.

 

[shogun6066]

I'm kind of dumbfounded by the Shaka thing and the idea that we should be excited to have a chance at him. So we're pumped he got drubbed so he'll get canned and we can hire him? The guy that just got drubbed? I don't get it.

I'd rather pursue Matta, a proven coach in the Power 6. Or a younger guy looking for his first shot in the P6.

Agreed. I'm pretty lukewarm about Shaka too. Dude's been in a Power Five conference at a huge state school with more resources than God and failed his way to consistent mediocrity. Hell, it took winning the NIT to keep him from being fired last year.
Granted, I can accept the idea that maybe Texas isn't a good fit for him. Though Shaka apparently didn't think so since he took the job. But, why exactly, does that mean we should hire him as a retread on the hopes that Wake will "fit" with him? Or, vise versa?
Remember, Shaka's already decided previously that Wake isn't a good fit for him; why should we go back like a jilted suitor?
(Oh. Yeah, SKAKA made that call; we reached out, he turned us down. That's the public record, that's all that matters for the discussion. I don't give a shit about "R.J. Sokolove" lie-rumors to the contrary.)

 

[netflixnchildres]

I think Marshall is a pipe dream unless Wake has some BMDs willing to give enough to pay him $5mil/year on top of paying off Manning's buyout. Just don't see him coming here unless the money is outrageous, which I doubt is possible.

 

[RJKarl]

It gets down to Marshall’s motivation to leave Wichita, not his buyout. Other than a lot of money, why would he leave a situation like he has in Wichita to coach an historically mid level ACC team?

He would have to think he can turn a program that is basically a Duke/UNC wannabe into an actual Duke or UNC.

Add to this, leaving a place where he has a job for life to go someplace where getting fired is possible for a not a lot more money.

 

[Pilchard]

Of course there is no inherent bias in kenpom for P5 teams (insert sarcasm), because we all know Wake is legitimately the 107th best team in the NCAA. Davidson is 2-3 in conference and 8-10 overall, not really a shining star in the league. While the ACC is not literally worse than the A10, the top of the A10 is legitimate and the league deserves multiple bids to the NCAA. Losing to a top-10 Dayton team at Dayton, and to a very good Rhode Island team (that did not "handle them" all game), is far from disqualifying VCU as a good team. Rhoades' teams play good defense, which is what you need to do to win on the road in the ACC. We've had 2 terrible coaches back to back and Rhoades is a level above both of them.

Not trying to be dick about this, but Rhody did dominate VCU. VCU never held a lead at any point, and URI led by as many as 16 in the 2nd half before winning by 9. VCU did make a 2nd half run, but it was a dominating road win. Realize its one game, but in the A-10, if you are good team, there are only a few games that are meaningful, and getting worked at home by a good, but not a great, URI team was a bad sign IMO about Rhoads.

Also, have no desire to get into a Ken Pom debate, but at this point, there are no biases for power conferences teams. The scores of the games alone (and the related stats) decide where a team is rated. That's how UVA's offense gets rated below Montana's, and how Colgate gets ranked ahead of Nebraska. FWIW, Dayton is rated #5 in KP. They are totally legit. 3 of the top 9 are from non-power 6 conferences: #3 Gonzaga, #5 Dayton, #9 SD State.

 

[netflixnchildres]

Not trying to be dick about this, but Rhody did dominate VCU. VCU never held a lead at any point, and URI led by as many as 16 in the 2nd half before winning by 9. VCU did make a 2nd half run, but it was a dominating road win. Realize its one game, but in the A-10, if you are good team, there are only a few games that are meaningful, and getting worked at home by a good, but not a great, URI team was a bad sign IMO about Rhoads.

Also, have no desire to get into a Ken Pom debate, but at this point, there are no biases for power conferences teams. The scores of the games alone (and the related stats) decide where a team is rated. That's how UVA's offense gets rated below Montana's, and how Colgate gets ranked ahead of Nebraska. FWIW, Dayton is rated #5 in KP. They are totally legit. 3 of the top 9 are from non-power 6 conferences: #3 Gonzaga, #5 Dayton, #9 SD State.

Out of curiosity, how many VCU games have you actually watched this year, or is your analysis purely based on Kenpom and reviewing ESPN box scores?

 

[Pilchard]

I live in the DC area. So, I follow all of the conferences with teams in the area, which includes the A-10 with Mason and GW. I happened to have action on the URI/VCU game; so, I did watch that one with particular interest. Almost all of VCU's games are available on the CBS Sports Network or the NBC Sports Network. If VCU is playing, and I am at home, I will watch at least some of the game. For all of its flaws, I get into college basketball.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I live in the DC area. So, I follow all of the conferences with teams in the area, which includes the A-10 with Mason and GW. I happened to have action on the URI/VCU game; so, I did watch that one with particular interest. Almost all of VCU's games are available on the CBS Sports Network or the NBC Sports Network. If VCU is playing, and I am at home, I will watch at least some of the game. For all of its flaws, I get into college basketball.

So the 1st half of the Dayton game and the entire Wichita State game, how did you think they looked?

 

[DeacsATS]

It’s OK to disagree, guys.

Though at least this debate is more interesting than Miller vs Kelsey.

I’m not as high on Rhoades as I was. I’m higher on Miller than I have been. As Pilchard has mentioned, he’s done an impressive job this year. Kelsey’s last few years are a concern, and his backing out of the UMASS gig to stay at Winthrop seems like a red flag (especially because he didn’t get Xavier).

Marshall seems like a compete fantasy, both because of money and the fact that he’s said no to better jobs than Wake.

I’m pretty meh on Shaka at this point, but I think there could be some validity to Wake being a better fit for him than Texas. There are worse guys to gamble on in a “fresh start” situation.

I still like Matta. Maybe the timing will be right. But even with the layoff, I think he’ll still have his pick of open jobs if he’s interested in coaching again.

I’m just hopeful of a change and that Currie nails what is a huge coaching search.

 

[Pilchard]

Didn't see either game. I know VCU lost both games by double digits to good teams. That is par for the course for them.

If you are 100% behind Rhoads, and follow VCU closely, that would make me feel better about Rhoads as a candidate. From my limited exposure to VCU, their aggressive style works well against inferior opponents, but they get handled when they play teams with equal or better talent (see the UCF blowout in the NCAA 1st round last year). Seems like they don't know what to do when teams can handle their pressure. Also, VCU now has a name; they have strong following in Richmond (they sell-out often), so, they get better talent than most of the teams in that conference; each of the last 5 coaches at VCU have been successful, but they have had mixed results at their next job. Would be concerned that the same would happen with Rhoads. That said, he should be on the list of WF candidates, and believe he would be an improvement over our last 2 coaches.

Sorry to have raised questions about Rhoads in the context as a candidate at WF. Simply trying to have a reasonable discussion about the pros and cons of every candidate; and Rhoads has some warts IMO. Seems reasonable to point them out.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I still like Grant and Forbes too. At this point though I've become apathetic about Wake Basketball. I don't watch the games anymore, and I won't care until Manning is fired and Currie puts a competent coach in his place. I went to almost every home game Danny's 1st four years, now I don't plan on going to any home games until Wake is a ranked team again.

 

[netflixnchildres]

Didn't see either game. I know VCU lost both games by double digits to good teams. That is par for the course for them.

If you are 100% behind Rhoads, and follow VCU closely, that would make me feel better about Rhoads as a candidate. From my limited exposure to VCU, their aggressive style works well against inferior opponents, but they get handled when they play teams with equal or better talent (see the UCF blowout in the NCAA 1st round last year). Seems like they don't know what to do when teams can handle their pressure. Also, VCU now has a name; they have strong following in Richmond (they sell-out often), so, they get better talent than most of the teams in that conference; each of the last 5 coaches at VCU have been successful, but they have had mixed results at their next job. Would be concerned that the same would happen with Rhoads. That said, he should be on the list of WF candidates, and believe he would be an improvement over our last 2 coaches.

Sorry to have raised questions about Rhoads in the context as a candidate at WF. Simply trying to have a reasonable discussion about the pros and cons of every candidate; and Rhoads has some warts IMO. Seems reasonable to point them out.

It's all good. I've spent a lot of time following Rhoades since someone else brought him up first last year. Good call to whoever that was. I've been impressed with almost everything I've seen. I don't know for sure if when they do give up runs occasionally to top teams if it's his players failing to execute, or a coaching error. He's a pretty good recruiter so far at VCU, but more than that I've noticed Rhoades and his staff are recruiting a lot of guys before they blow up and get bigger offers. They have an eye for talent and maybe an ACC school like Wake Forest would help him get commits from those guys before bigger schools come offer and take them away. I agree Rhoades is by no means a perfect candidate, and Wake can't get a perfect candidate at this point. So we are all just arguing about flawed hires since Few, Marshall, Mack, Wright, Calipari, Stevens, Donovan and anyone else really elite is not coming here.

 

[SDDeac]

Here's my top three: Matta, Kelsey, Miller. Hope Currie pulls the trigger.

Agree with the order of the last two. Replace Matta with Beilein. If Beilein doesn’t retire, then idk. I just know Matta isn’t going to happen. He retired because of health issues. Why would that change?

 

[SDDeac]

I still like Grant and Forbes too. At this point though I've become apathetic about Wake Basketball. I don't watch the games anymore, and I won't care until Manning is fired and Currie puts a competent coach in his place. I went to almost every home game Danny's 1st four years, now I don't plan on going to any home games until Wake is a ranked team again.

I’m sick of these comments. If you don’t care, then don’t reply to the thread! The thread is about potential coaches to replace Manning. Nobody cares how you used to go to every game and don’t anymore. That’s where we are all at for the most part. We don’t need to hear these pity stories.

 

[RJKarl]

Agree with the order of the last two. Replace Matta with Beilein. If Beilein doesn’t retire, then idk. I just know Matta isn’t going to happen. He retired because of health issues. Why would that change?

Because, in a few months, he won't be getting a fat paycheck from O$U.

 

[SDDeac]

Because, in a few months, he won't be getting a fat paycheck from O$U.

Again, he retired because of health issues. Not saying money is the problem.

 

[DeacsATS]

Again, he retired because of health issues. Not saying money is the problem.

This is factually incorrect.

He was fired. Why else would be still be collecting a paycheck from them?

The health issues were a factor in him not being as effective, but he didn’t retire.

 

[ironwill24]

I’m sick of these comments. If you don’t care, then don’t reply to the thread! The thread is about potential coaches to replace Manning. Nobody cares how you used to go to every game and don’t anymore. That’s where we are all at for the most part. We don’t need to hear these pity stories.

I want comments like Netflixandchildress' to keep coming so we never forget what Wellman has done to us. I'll tell my grandkids where I was when Dino was fired and buzz hired. #neverforget

 

[Azdeac]

Agreed. I'm pretty lukewarm about Shaka too. Dude's been in a Power Five conference at a huge state school with more resources than God and failed his way to consistent mediocrity. Hell, it took winning the NIT to keep him from being fired last year.
Granted, I can accept the idea that maybe Texas isn't a good fit for him. Though Shaka apparently didn't think so since he took the job. But, why exactly, does that mean we should hire him as a retread on the hopes that Wake will "fit" with him? Or, vise versa?
Remember, Shaka's already decided previously that Wake isn't a good fit for him; why should we go back like a jilted suitor?
(Oh. Yeah, SKAKA made that call; we reached out, he turned us down. That's the public record, that's all that matters for the discussion. I don't give a shit about "R.J. Sokolove" lie-rumors to the contrary.)

Anthony Grant failed at a Power 5 school. Dayton is now ranked #7 in the country. Sometimes, it's about the passion and the match. Shaka took the money - maybe it wasn't the passion and a culture match. Grant went back to his alma mater. They both knew exactly what they were getting in the other. If Currie and Shaka have a good relationship, Shaka may have an incredibly different result.

 

[morrison2951]

That's the idea. A change of scenery will do him some good.

SHAKA SHAKA SHAKA!