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Deandre Martin Done for the Season at least

As it relates to this article, I take great issue with Grobe. I know Camp is all world and was an impact player. I know tht losing an impact player is tough. However, Grobe basically says that he is clueless now without Camp? How do you not prepare or motivate your second stringers to step up (speaking strictly on the field issues)? OR how is a 30+ year veteran coach clueless after losing one important player.

That's what bothers me too. I think it speaks poorly of the coaching that one guy can be that important to us on offense in a sport where 11 guys are on the field and quite honestly it doesn't speak well of the other receivers that we haven't had another guy who could step up, which is also partly a product of coaching. Put it this way, in 2006 our go to guy WR Kenny Moore had to move to running back for a couple of games and we didn't skip a beat. We had a team full of guys who may not have been week to week "go-to" guys, but we had guys who become a "go-to" guy when they had the chance.
 
The problem with the offense is and always has been Grobe and Lobo. Lack of depth and over reliance on one player are symptoms.
 
The problem with the offense is and always has been Grobe and Lobo. Lack of depth and over reliance on one player are symptoms.

No one knows, but I think if Grobe had not promoted Lobo and had brought in a good OC, we'd be in an entirely different situation right now. Of course, he may have had to bring in a couple of good OC's as this point depending on turnover, but most years the defense has at least been good enough to win with a good offense.
 
No one knows, but I think if Grobe had not promoted Lobo and had brought in a good OC, we'd be in an entirely different situation right now. Of course, he may have had to bring in a couple of good OC's as this point depending on turnover, but most years the defense has at least been good enough to win with a good offense.

So true.
 
When a team tanks year after year at the end of the season, as Wake has, you get this kind of stuff. It happens at every level from high school to the NFL. The indictment on Grobe should not be disciplining players off the field, it should be on our inability to finish a season on the field.
 
Grobe pulled the most red shirts of any year at Wake. He said it was because of depth toward the end of the year. Some have said that we back load the schedule, but that's not the case. The off field stuff is a result of a lack of focus and discipline. Many players seem to be fed up come november. That's why when Nikita and Camp went off on the players after Vandy last year, I had hope that things would change. It's likely that they haven't. I haven't seen anybody stepping up to fill their leadership shoes.
 
The problem with the offense is and always has been Grobe and Lobo. Lack of depth and over reliance on one player are symptoms.

Ph, when did you become Grobe/Lobo out? Was it the 2nd half of the '09 season that did it for you?
 
Ph, when did you become Grobe/Lobo out? Was it the 2nd half of the '09 season that did it for you?

Ph was GrobeOut when GroubeOut wasn't cool, just like the Barbara Mandrell song.
 
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Barbara Mandrell? Been a long time since I've watched Hee Haw.

I've been Lobo out since his 2nd year as OC or so. It was clear early on he just didn't have it.

I've only been GrobeOut the last year or so. It's become clear he's not going to make the necessary changes to the program and he's not going to adjust to changing times. I've been critical of Grobe for things I feel he could change, but didn't necessarily want him gone. He's done a lot for Wake football and I was hoping he could do it again.

I outlined my philosophy on Grobe in the bowl game thread before the season. I'll see if I can find it.
 
Found it.

Ph, I feel like we've been around this a few times, but if you were the head coach of Wake Forest football what would you do to win games? I know you are not the coach, and you don't have to be to criticize, but I'd like to to hear a few notions from you on this topic. To be clear, I'm not being critical of you being critical, I just want to hear what your thoughts are.

Here are a few questions:

What do you think about Coach Grobe overall?
Do you think he should not be our coach?
If not then who do you think we should get to be our coach?
Do you agree with the decision to stop the redshirting?
How many wins do you think we should get out of this roster?
Do you agree with the switch to a more "option" based offense?

Once again, I know this is not your job, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

If you have said this before then I apologize.

I know this is bait because we've been over this plenty of times and I post too damn much to have to repeat myself.

1. Grobe was a good coach who brought a great philosophy to Wake. Redshirt and win with experience and execution. Play a conservative ball control strategy to minimize turnovers and focus on defense. Wake isn't an easy place to win, but that is the way to do it. Grobe had early success with Caldwell's players who were stronger on offense by using Calhoun's style. Adding two of his greatest players as true freshmen in Barclay and Plack helped. He did a good job recruiting from the Seattle Bowl. Whether on purpose or just going with the best players possible, he went heavy on defense. By going heavy on defense, we had depth and could overcome attrition (Drumgoole, Causey). Having Sam Swank helped, of course. He got the perfect players for his system, albeit in a different era of recruiting and it worked out well.

(find a post I made last week about how the best recruiting period was before YouTube went on line and made it tougher to find sleeper players like Curry)

Grobe has had the same rise and fall Odom and Prosser had. Just like Odom got Duncan by being the school with the best weather and Prosser was lucky to have CP3 in his backyard, Grobe managed to get a good mix of underrated, lightly recruited players in the right point in time in the FRESH DEACS. Each coach had the perfect fit for his style and peaked. Odom and Grobe managed to get good players on paper but couldn't get the same success. Prosser's recruiting just fell off after big misses like OCC. All three couldn't get back to where they were without perfect recruits and failed to adapt to what they could get.

Grobe's philosophy is so conservative to the point of being risky. His safe play isn't the high percentage play. Things like settling for 40+ yard FGs, punting inside the opponent's 35, and not being aggressive in late game situations when a few 1st downs will win the game are conservative to a fault. He gets scared of a low percentage negative event like a turnover and baits himself into high percentage negative events like missed FGs that give up field position, 15 yard net punts, and his poor defenses allowing TD drives.

2. He deserves a chance to get back to where he was, but the last 4 years have worn out his welcome. I don't know how you can argue against those poor finishes. That's just not a sign of good coaching. If we can only beat the dregs in late Oct and November, we're not a competitive program. He'll finish out his contract or get an extension, but he should be gone if we can't tread water with 6 wins next year.

3. I don't know. That's a bullshit question AD plants like you ask critical fans like me in order to feel superior. I don't know the coaching landscape or who would be interested or what. I'm sure there are plenty of talented coaching minds out there who would love to get a shot at an ACC and we shouldn't be scared that they might leave because of what Mackovic did 30 years ago. Believe it or not, Wake has been a destination job for winning coaches across all sports.

4. We haven't seen it happen yet. I think the best players should play. If the best players aren't the more experienced players, that's a problem. I think what Grobe has been doing with redshirting is fine. It's not a strict policy. Everybody doesn't automatically redshirt. For a long stretch, the only players that played as true frosh were the best players on the team for four years. Guys like Barclay, Plack, Thompson, DeGeare, rightfully didn't redshirt.

I think he could have been looser with some redshirts for guys who probably could have contributed as true frosh like Abbate. We've also seen the downside of redshirting by missing a year due to unforeseen issues from Abbate, Givens, Boldin, and Brandon Ghee. If DeGeare had redshirted, it would have happened to him, too.

If Grobe just plays all the true frosh just to play them, I'll be disappointed, but not too surprised. He has four years left on his contract. No point in holding them out for a 5th year he may not coach them.

5. Honestly, I don't think we're all that talented and that's Grobe's fault. A decent Wake team should win at least 6-8 games a year given the weak schedules we play.

6. It won't really matter as long as Lobo is designing the offense and calling the plays. I don't think Tanner is a good fit for the option and he'll get killed. I think they need to pick something and do it well rather than rely on trickery with a new scheme every week. The reason Grobe's early offenses worked wasn't because they fooled people. They worked because they were very well executed by a disciplined and well-conditioned offense that could wear teams down throughout the game. We're not going to be the most talented team on the field every week, but we damn sure can be the smartest team, that works the hardest, is technically sound, and gives a 110% on every play. That team can win games. That high level of execution been missing for several years now and that's the biggest indictment of Grobe.
 
Barbara Mandrell? Been a long time since I've watched Hee Haw.

I've been Lobo out since his 2nd year as OC or so. It was clear early on he just didn't have it.

I've only been GrobeOut the last year or so. It's become clear he's not going to make the necessary changes to the program and he's not going to adjust to changing times. I've been critical of Grobe for things I feel he could change, but didn't necessarily want him gone. He's done a lot for Wake football and I was hoping he could do it again.

I outlined my philosophy on Grobe in the bowl game thread before the season. I'll see if I can find it.

Bull, you know you have the entire series on DVD. Seriously, I saw her dark headed sister on the golf course one time, very pretty lady.
louise-mandrell-08.jpg
 
Haha, I used to love HeeHaw as a kid even though I never liked country music. Funny is funny. Obviously, I didn't realize my life as a Deacon fan would be summed up by this.

 
Haha, I used to love HeeHaw as a kid even though I never liked country music. Funny is funny. Obviously, I didn't realize my life as a Deacon fan would be summed up by this.



I've got to posrep you for that, lol!!!! Someone needs to photoshop the faces of Wellman, Bzzz, Grobe and Lobo on there and it would be pee in your pants funny.
 
Haha, I used to love HeeHaw as a kid even though I never liked country music. Funny is funny. Obviously, I didn't realize my life as a Deacon fan would be summed up by this.

PERFECT!
 
Found it.

Thanks for posting that. Was talking with some folks recently and came to this conclusion: Grobe was 33-33-1 at Ohio and 26-32 in his first 5 years at Wake. More or less he was a .500 coach and as Denny Green said, Grobe is who we thought he was. Hindsight is always 20/20 but we would have been MUCH better to let Grobe walk after '07 knowing that he is a .500 coach and would revert back to that. Instead, we paid a coach based on 1 year when that year was clearly the exception and not the rue.
 
Definitely. I'm sure I put it somewhere but basically, Grobe will get you 3-5 wins against FBS teams. That's who he is.
 
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