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Death Penalty

Here is a little back room reality.

Politicians don't get money from the lobbies group of murders, accused or actual. However, a lot of attorneys who don't like either the death penalty itself or how it is applied have shared a lot of information to minimze the time it takes them to inflict a serious drain on resources everytime the state tries to use it. The pols pass laws to show they are tough and make it easier to use, the lawyers respond with pooling resources and new tactics.

The lawyers, as always, are winning, especailly since some of are also pols. After the 1996 "reforms" the US executed 74, 68, 95, and 86. The last four years, 37, 52, 46, 43.
 
The death penalty is the worst manifestation of big government.
 
DeacinBama said:
Just so I understand, is there a word missing here? Overall, it seems like you're saying that the death penalty doesn't do its job, but this part confuses me.
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Yeah. My bad. It does not act as a deterrent and is more expensive.
 
The government should not be in the business of killing its own citizens IMO.
 
Ball State Deac said:
The government should not be in the business of killing its own citizens IMO.
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If I had a loved one that was the victim of a violent, heinous crime, there is no doubt in my mind that I would want the death penalty for the person who did it. If I was Eve Carson's parents, I wouldn't even think twice about it (and I understand from the news reports that they have taken a different position). I am sorry, I am just not that big of a person.
 
jhmd2000 said:
If I had a loved one that was the victim of a violent, heinous crime, there is no doubt in my mind that I would want the death penalty for the person who did it. If I was Eve Carson's parents, I wouldn't even think twice about it (and I understand from the news reports that they have taken a different position). I am sorry, I am just not that big of a person.
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And the government should be "bigger" than you.
 
jhmd2000 said:
If I had a loved one that was the victim of a violent, heinous crime, there is no doubt in my mind that I would want the death penalty for the person who did it. If I was Eve Carson's parents, I wouldn't even think twice about it (and I understand from the news reports that they have taken a different position). I am sorry, I am just not that big of a person.
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In the words of the great Samuel L Jackson, "Yes they deserve to die and I hope they rot in hell."
 
The death penalty decision is a PR move for local politicians and lawyers.
 
I believe if you take a survey of the lovely residents of places such as SuperMax in Colorado, you'll find many of them wishing they HAD received the DP. That's another objection I have to it: it really deprives society of witnessing ongoing punishment. Take a moment and search for info on the lives of people such as Robert Hanssen, Terry Nichols, Moussaoui, Yousef, and Ted Kaczynksi. Included in all the deprivations they face is the ability to use anything with which to kill themselves. That is punishment. To acknowledge you've created something so punitive that death is preferable. But denied. That is punishment. McVeigh got off easy.
 
Don't have corn hole sex or embezzle in some countries around the world or you'll get a noose in the public square.
 
94Deac said:
I believe if you take a survey of the lovely residents of places such as SuperMax in Colorado, you'll find many of them wishing they HAD received the DP. That's another objection I have to it: it really deprives society of witnessing ongoing punishment. Take a moment and search for info on the lives of people such as Robert Hanssen, Terry Nichols, Moussaoui, Yousef, and Ted Kaczynksi. Included in all the deprivations they face is the ability to use anything with which to kill themselves. That is punishment. To acknowledge you've created something so punitive that death is preferable. But denied. That is punishment. McVeigh got off easy.
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Let's just do this Roman style, put the offenders in the coliseum, make it PPV, and fix the deficit.
 
94Deac said:
I believe if you take a survey of the lovely residents of places such as SuperMax in Colorado, you'll find many of them wishing they HAD received the DP. That's another objection I have to it: it really deprives society of witnessing ongoing punishment. Take a moment and search for info on the lives of people such as Robert Hanssen, Terry Nichols, Moussaoui, Yousef, and Ted Kaczynksi. Included in all the deprivations they face is the ability to use anything with which to kill themselves. That is punishment. To acknowledge you've created something so punitive that death is preferable. But denied. That is punishment. McVeigh got off easy.
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I get what you're saying and I dont disagree. That's why I always find it odd when people who are against the death penalty criticize it for being barbaric. As if sentencing someone to a cell for the rest of their natural lives is somehow kind.
 
I guess keeper was out the day they taught "citizenship" in school. In fact, I'm realizing keeper missed quite a lot of school.
 
I have always wondered why people have such a hard time with the death penalty vs. life in a supermax. Once a person goes to supermax their life is essentially over anyway. Is keeping someone in a cage preferred to just ending the life? If the crime is heinous enough that we feel we have to right to constrict their life to a 10x10 cell, then what is the real difference? People have already said in this quote that supermax residents would rather be dead than in prison, so it doesn't seem any more humane to keep them caged like an animal. I personally have no problem with either. There are crimes against humanity that deserve the ultimate form of justice, a life. It is not retribution, it is justice for the crime. If you murder 10 people you do not deserve to live, plain and simple.
 
Wrangor said:
I have always wondered why people have such a hard time with the death penalty vs. life in a supermax. Once a person goes to supermax their life is essentially over anyway. Is keeping someone in a cage preferred to just ending the life? If the crime is heinous enough that we feel we have to right to constrict their life to a 10x10 cell, then what is the real difference? People have already said in this quote that supermax residents would rather be dead than in prison, so it doesn't seem any more humane to keep them caged like an animal. I personally have no problem with either. There are crimes against humanity that deserve the ultimate form of justice, a life. It is not retribution, it is justice for the crime. If you murder 10 people you do not deserve to live, plain and simple.
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Can you please reconcile your belief in the death penalty with your vehement opposition to gay marriage?
 
DeacinBama said:
Yeah, I'm not so sure I get the retribution angle, with the caveat I am sure I would feel differently if a loved-one were the victim of a heinous crime. But our prison system (at least initially) was built around the concept of rehabilitation. Once rehabilitation is no longer considered reasonable, then the point is to remove the threat from society and deter others. If life in prison accomplishes both of those more reliably and less costly than the death penalty, then I can't justify the cost and - frankly - the spectacle of it.
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Totally agree, and I'd add that I don't think the government should be in the business of retribution. I may feel differently if someone I loved was killed, but the government should be able to act in a more rational manner than those that are distraught.
 
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