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Do negative fans hurt the basketball program?

RJKarl said:
He was not a hands off coach with Ari or Melvin...you don't know what you are talking about.
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Ok, so Bzzz: more or less hands on with his players off the court than Skip?
 
Part of it (getting back to coaches) is the way that college basketball has changed in recent years. Mid-major coaches can get paid just about as well as the big boys now. That's why a Mark Few, Shaka Smart or Brad Stevens doesn't have to go anywhere. They can get on TV and get exposure and get paid where they are.

It gets tougher, especially for a school like Wake that does have some built-in disadvantages, to lure a coach like those guys from schools like that.

Play a game for a second--if you're Ron Wellman and you're trying to get a Brad Stevens, what's your pitch?? (other than more money and a bigger stage on which to coach)??
 
No disagreement that the landscape is different than it used to be, but Wake Forest is still not even close to being one of the toughest jobs in the country. There are plenty of schools out there that have that same disadvantage (not enough money/prestige to hire the Brad Stevens of the world), but have a lot more issues on top of it.

Also, there's a lot of room between Jeff [Redacted] and Brad Stevens. A lot.
 
CharmCityDeac said:
Part of it (getting back to coaches) is the way that college basketball has changed in recent years. Mid-major coaches can get paid just about as well as the big boys now. That's why a Mark Few, Shaka Smart or Brad Stevens doesn't have to go anywhere. They can get on TV and get exposure and get paid where they are.
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So, what you're saying is that the playing field has leveled? That seems to hurt your argument that we are a tough job because we are in the shadow or Duke/UNC, small in size, etc.
 
CharmCityDeac said:
Its the 4th best job in the state. Once Pitt and Syracuse come in to the conference--I would rank it no higher than the 8th or 9th best job in the conference. And that's probably being generous--putting us ahead of programs like UVA and/or GT.

Let's define a great job, too. A lot of you guys seem to think any ACC job is a great one. That's not how I'm defining it. Can you win consistently there and be a perennial top-10 program there--that's how I define a great job. As much as I'd like to, I can't put Wake there right now. No coach we've ever had in the history of our program has gotten us there consistently. There are probably 15-20 schools nationally I would put at that level. We are not one of them. We have two legendary coaches and programs 90 miles down the road. That--almost definitionally--makes our job an extremely challenging one.

And no one said it was a bad job. Its just a very challenging one.
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15-20 schools can be a perennial top-10 program. Nice.
 
RacerDeac said:
So, what you're saying is that the playing field has leveled? That seems to hurt your argument that we are a tough job because we are in the shadow or Duke/UNC, small in size, etc.
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The playing field has leveled for the mid-majors to keep and attract coaches. More games on TV, etc.

Here's a list of 5 schools (both mid-major and BCS schools)--none of them with an amazing recent history--are we a better job than all of them??

Temple
Gonzaga
Michigan
Illinois
Georgetown
 
CharmCityDeac said:
Here's a list of 5 schools (both mid-major and BCS schools)--none of them with an amazing recent history--are we a better job than all of them??

Temple
Gonzaga
Michigan
Illinois
Georgetown
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Maybe, maybe not. The answer could be no and the list could be 30 long, and we still wouldn't be "one of the toughest jobs in the country".
 
RacerDeac said:
Ok, so Bzzz: more or less hands on with his players off the court than Skip?
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I don't know as much about [Redacted] as I do about Skip. Skip was more persoanble.

You still refuse to admit yo uare wrong. You expect me to and I did but you can't do it.
 
Are the following jobs better than Wake Forest?

BC
Colorado
DePaul
Iowa State
Miami
Northwestern
Oregon State
Ole Miss
Penn State
Rutgers
South Carolina
Texas Tech
 
RacerDeac said:
Maybe, maybe not. The answer could be no and the list could be 30 long, and we still wouldn't be "one of the toughest jobs in the country".
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I'll stand by it, with the caveat that I'm using my definition of "toughest jobs". I think its easier to win consistently (over a 10-year period) at any of those 5 schools than it is at Wake. I am handicapping us by being in the ACC. By having Duke and Carolina down the road. By not having a natural recruiting base. Those make the job more difficult. Our winning percentage in the ACC since it began is a losing one (.477). And yet, this is (by most accounts) our flagship program. Yes, I think its a very difficult job.
 
TBR said:
Are the following jobs better than Wake Forest?

BC
Colorado
DePaul
Iowa State
Miami
Northwestern
Oregon State
Ole Miss
Penn State
Rutgers
South Carolina
Texas Tech
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all of those are worse jobs than Wake Forest.
 
TBR said:
Are the following jobs better than Wake Forest?

BC
Colorado
DePaul
Iowa State
Miami
Northwestern
Oregon State
Ole Miss
Penn State
Rutgers
South Carolina
Texas Tech
Click to expand...

I would say Wake is a better job than all of the above, although I'm not deeply familiar with all programs so I might be missing one or two that is a better program.
 
CharmCityDeac said:
The playing field has leveled for the mid-majors to keep and attract coaches. More games on TV, etc.

Here's a list of 5 schools (both mid-major and BCS schools)--none of them with an amazing recent history--are we a better job than all of them??

Temple -Yes we are better

Gonzaga- if Mark Few would leave yes

Michigan- toss-up

Illinois-Has inside track on lots of talent -but is mid-apck in Big We Can't
Count--we are slightly better

Georgetown- Without a Thompson we don't know.
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....
 
TBR said:
Are the following jobs better than Wake Forest?

BC
Colorado
DePaul
Iowa State
Miami
Northwestern
Oregon State
Ole Miss
Penn State
Rutgers
South Carolina
Texas Tech
Click to expand...

No. I don't think they are better jobs than Wake. Are most of them easier jobs than Wake? Yes, I believe they could be. You either have no expectations (no one cares at all), or a natural recruiting base, or an easier conference, etc.

My only point here is that we're in the deep end of the pool in a big way. We're in the ACC--we have 3 prestigious bball programs right down the road (with 2 of them perennial top-5 programs), at a very small, academically-prestigious school with an off-campus arena that's way too big and high expectations for our flagship program--one with a losing in-conference record over its history. That, to me, is a tough job.
 
RJKarl said:
I don't know as much about [Redacted] as I do about Skip. Skip was more persoanble.

You still refuse to admit yo uare wrong. You expect me to and I did but you can't do it.
Click to expand...

joepaterno.jpg
 
RJKarl said:
all of those are worse jobs than Wake Forest.
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Of course they are. That's at least two jobs from each power conference that are tougher than Wake Forest. (and that's obviously not even close to being an extensive list).

Look at when we hired [Redacted]. Other open power conference jobs were St. Johns, Clemson, DePaul, BC, and Oregon. I'd say we were the best of the lot, with Oregon and St. Johns being the only ones with even an argument.
 
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