• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Education Policy Thread: Pubs are now the party of choice!

ConnorEl said:
Of course.

I understand the potential value of competition, generally.

But it seems highly oversimplified to imagine that just making schools fight for students/dollars is going to be either better educationally or offer better value to us collectively. I suspect it would end up about like our medical system...we pay the most collectivley for a product that's highly unevenly available and, on aggregate, much worse than most other advanced economies/nations.
Click to expand...

If the magic solution to better public schools is competition, then the big problem schools have is a lazy workforce. I don't think this is the problem.
 
At the end of the day, the real test for charter schools will be how they are viewed my college admissions officers. I’m sure the grade inflation that charter schools provide, due to inexperienced teachers and the desire to keep parents happy, will help in the short term but as those standardized scores continue to drop I can’t imagine they’ll be taken very seriously.

Which is fine if you want your kid to go to the Liberty and sell insurance, I guess.

Oh and the diversity essays ought to be a hoot.
 
As of October 1, 2020, there are 200 charter schools in North Carolina serving 126,165 students. Approximately 8.4 percent of North Carolina’s 1.5 million school children attend charter schools.

Adding in a waitlist of 76,000, almost 14% of the traditional public school population is either already out (through this one route among many) or is waiting to get out, but the purportedly curious minds of our resident educators don't have any questions. Odd.
 
Link to those stats? I’m curious if it specifies that those on the waitlist are in public schools not just other charters.
 
WokeandBroke said:
As of October 1, 2020, there are 200 charter schools in North Carolina serving 126,165 students. Approximately 8.4 percent of North Carolina’s 1.5 million school children attend charter schools.

Adding in a waitlist of 76,000, almost 14% of the traditional public school population is either already out (through this one route among many) or is waiting to get out, but the purportedly curious minds of our resident educators don't have any questions. Odd.
Click to expand...

Can you please give us a time frame on the waitlist data? Is that 76k a recent spike or has there consistently been and long waitlist for say 5 years or more?
 
WokeandBroke said:
As of October 1, 2020, there are 200 charter schools in North Carolina serving 126,165 students. Approximately 8.4 percent of North Carolina’s 1.5 million school children attend charter schools.

Adding in a waitlist of 76,000, almost 14% of the traditional public school population is either already out (through this one route among many) or is waiting to get out, but the purportedly curious minds of our resident educators don't have any questions. Odd.
Click to expand...

I'll play along.

Why do we need more charter schools? Why can't the current schools expand capacity? Why does the state need to supply more administrative and infrastructural funding?
 
This is from an obviously biased source, but I couldn't find another website that answered my questions about Charters so succinctly. JHMD or any other posters who support charters, do you care to respond to the claims:

https://www.publicschoolsfirstnc.org/resources/fact-sheets/quick-facts-on-charter-schools/

Charter schools are required to participate in the state’s accountability program and administer end-of-grade and end-of course tests, and provide data needed for NC School Report Cards.

However, unlike traditional public schools, charter schools:

Are not governed by elected officials; for-profit companies may manage them, and there is no requirement that board members reside in North Carolina.
Have no curriculum requirements.
Can modify their academic calendar.
Have no restrictions on class size.
Can expand by one grade level beyond what is currently offered without approval from the NC State Board of Education.
Are not required to have all teachers licensed—only 50 percent of teachers must be licensed.
Are not required to hold teacher workdays for professional training and development.
Are not required to provide transportation to students, and those that do provide transportation are not subject to the same safety standards as traditional public schools.
Are not required to provide free and reduced price lunches for students living in poverty.
Are exempt from public bidding laws that protect how tax dollars are spent. There is no transparency in budgeting since charter schools do not have to tell the public how they spend public money.

The last one is a big red flag for me. The public doesn't get to know where our tax dollars are going? No wonder the GOP loves charter schools.

Like I said this is from a biased site, so I'm open to these points being refuted. However if true, this would explain the declining performance on standardized tests.
 
https://nsjonline.com/article/2021/...rease-last-fall-vast-majority-have-waitlists/

RALEIGH — A draft of the annual charter schools report showed increases in enrollment last fall with a high percentage of schools reporting waitlists.

At a meeting of the N.C. Charter School Advisory Board (CSAB), the draft report compiled for the General Assembly reported that 126,000 students were enrolled in North Carolina’s 200 charter schools as of Oct. 1, 2020 — an increase of almost 7.7% over the 117,000 students enrolled during the prior school year.

The draft report also revealed that 78% of the state’s charter schools had indicated they have a waitlist which represents around 76,000 students. Additionally, while district schools saw declines in Average Daily Membership (ADM) during the pandemic, charter schools reported ADM growth in every single grade level.
 
birdman said:
Can you please give us a time frame on the waitlist data? Is that 76k a recent spike or has there consistently been and long waitlist for say 5 years or more?
Click to expand...

This is a good question. #anecdotally, we've been trying to get into charters since the jump, and have experienced waitlists at every turn. We applied to multiple charters each year and didn't get in until our fourth year of applying. We were far enough down the list at our first choice that the school would have to turn over 3 times before we got it, but that was at one of the top schools in the State, so we kept trying other places. The State Charter School office reports annually, so I can look this up later when I have more time (it being a schoolday here at WokeandBroke Academy).
 
So there’s no evidence that waitlists aren’t kids in one charter who want to get into a “better” charter.
 
That’s called critical thinking. Otherwise we are assuming every parent with kids in competitive charters is perfectly happy.
 
You may want to dial down your assumptions based on lack of evidence.
 
PhDeac said:
You may want to dial down your assumptions based on lack of evidence.
Click to expand...

76% of these schools have a waitlist. I wish traditional public schools had that kind of a draw. If they did, we wouldn't have charters. We do.
 
Well this thread hasn’t provided any more details than the previous one. But waitlists. That’s apparently all the evidence that jh needs to conclude that a parallel system of publicly funded charter schools will create better results for all students and will cost less. If you throw some anti mask and CRT language in there maybe mark robinson will include it in his platform.
 
WokeandBroke said:
76% of these schools have a waitlist. I wish traditional public schools had that kind of a draw. If they did, we wouldn't have charters. We do.
Click to expand...

What is the timeframe on those waitlist. The weight of evidence their existence carries is dependent, in my opinion, on how long the wait lists are and how long they have been that long.

The other important piece of the assessment is why are people choosing charter schools. You seem to be using "dissatisfaction with traditional public schools" as the default but there are a whole pile of other reasons why you might choose an alternative school that have nothing to do with quality of education at your neighborhood middle school. Without out that survey data, you really can't draw any of the conclusions you are drawing.
 
Republicans like jhmd don’t seem to have a model for quality beyond exclusivity.

It’s lazy to think something is good because people are willing to expend minimal effort to wait for it. Our oldest was on a waiting list for a trendy charter in 1st grade due to his special needs. By the time he got off the waitlist, my wife was comfortable with how our neighborhood school handled his changing IEP. I later found out that one of my colleague’s son was severely bullied at that school at administrators didn’t do enough to stop it.

Even if you buy jhmd’s premise, there another reason that 76,000 number is flawed. If the key is to be in A charter, any charter, instead of a traditional public school, some people are on multiple waitlists.

So you can’t just add 76,000 waitlisted to the existing charter students to come up with a total who like charters.
 
Last edited:
WokeandBroke said:
76% of these schools have a waitlist. I wish traditional public schools had that kind of a draw. If they did, we wouldn't have charters. We do.
Click to expand...

You know that public schools don’t have waitlists, right? We just take the kids and make it work. My prior middle school added 150 students one summer after not filling a couple of positions left by retired teachers, which meant our classes went from crowded to overcrowded.

Why can’t your charter school just take more kids?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top