• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Evolution, Creation, and You

Pick the statement that describes you best


  • Total voters
    84
This isn't intended to be incendiary, but I know it will likely come off that way-

I'm sure you all realize this, but if you're turned off by literalism, please know that Christianity (or faith, in general) and science can coexist rather happily.

And while I appreciate anyone willing to stand up for their faith and am glad they have the right to do so, I wouldn't say that its necessarily it's a good or laudable thing to stand up for something that the vast majority of your community thinks is wrong. (Yes, I realize that God often works through the minority/humble/meek/etc, not the majority/storng; but sometimes wrong is just wrong.) Not that Wrangor or others are on this level, but Westboro "church" doesn't deserve any applause for what they stand up for.
 
serious, real Q:

Wrangor do you believe your children would go to hell if they rejected Christian doctrine in all forms but grew up to what most in our society would consider above average neighbors and genuinely good human beings? Just curious don't plan to take the question any further. I don't believe in an afterlife anyway. For me, you kinda need ur body to continue to experience what we all call life, but that's neither here nor there.

Yes. Without a doubt. "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - Jesus. We don't have to be good to go to heaven...thank goodness. The thief on the cross was an awful human being, but he put his faith in Jesus when he was confronted with the reality of the Gospel. So there is no doubt in my mind if my two children refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior then they will spend eternity without him (ie: hell).
 
In all seriousness, you do realize the Bible wasn't intended to be read literally, right? And you do realize that the point of the Bible is to point towards God/Jesus (who is the Word of God made flesh), not to be worshiped as an object?

Yes, I realize the different forms of expression in the Bible (history/poetry/biography/letters/etc....). When I say literal it means I accept the form for what it is. Which means that I believe the vast majority of the Bible to be a historically accurate document (ie: I believe there was a real flood).
 
Yes, I realize the different forms of expression in the Bible (history/poetry/biography/letters/etc....). When I say literal it means I accept the form for what it is. Which means that I believe the vast majority of the Bible to be a historically accurate document (ie: I believe there was a real flood).

Do you believe that god covered up evidence of a worldwide flood, or that it was a localized event? How do you explain that there isn't any such worldwide evidence?
 
Why would Wrangor need evidence?

Wrangor, how do you reconcile your "everything must have a purpose" doctrine with the scientific record?
 
Do you believe that god covered up evidence of a worldwide flood, or that it was a localized event? How do you explain that there isn't any such worldwide evidence?

I believe that Wrangor would believe in the idea of a world wide flood, and not a localized event. Wrangor (as I) believe in a literal Bible, believing that the events listed in the Bible actually occurred. There was no cover up, the Bible provides the evidence, as not only is it a book about the history of Christianity, but it is also historically accurate document.
Additionally, in response to the second question, what worldwide evidence would you be looking for? You are asking Wrangor to prove that there was a flood, how would you prove that there wasn't? Because science doesn't prove it? Science 1000 years couldn't prove that the world was round, but we now know that it is. From my knowledge (which is, admittedly, incomplete), I cannot prove that there was a flood. You cannot definitively prove that there was not a flood. Maybe, 100 years from now, our knowledge of science and the world will be able to prove that there is evidence of a flood and will be able to explain it. Maybe it never will. If scientific evidence does prove there was a flood, it just proves that there is a God who works thru means that I can understand. If it doesn't, I will continue to believe that it occurred, He just worked thru supernatural means that I do not understand. Either way, I still put my faith in God.
Wrangor has decided to put his faith in the Christian God. For the Muslim, this faith is in Muhammad. For many people, the faith is in science (as I see many of the people posting on this thread). In the end, it comes down to faith in something, it is just a question about what you are going to put the faith in.
 
Do you believe that god covered up evidence of a worldwide flood, or that it was a localized event? How do you explain that there isn't any such worldwide evidence?

There is plenty of scientific evidence of a great flood.
 
Why would Wrangor need evidence?

Wrangor, how do you reconcile your "everything must have a purpose" doctrine with the scientific record?

I am not even sure what this question means. But I will bow out of this thread. It is a hot button topic that never ends with civil discourse, because my beliefs are completely foolishness in the eyes of most. I understand and accept that. Thanks for the civil discourse thus far.

Good day.
 
I am not even sure what this question means. But I will bow out of this thread. It is a hot button topic that never ends with civil discourse, because my beliefs are completely foolishness in the eyes of most. I understand and accept that. Thanks for the civil discourse thus far.

Good day.

You once said everything has a purpose. So what's the purpose of the fossil record, and astronomy, and dinosaur bones, and radio carbon dating, etc?
 
I believe that Wrangor would believe in the idea of a world wide flood, and not a localized event. Wrangor (as I) believe in a literal Bible, believing that the events listed in the Bible actually occurred. There was no cover up, the Bible provides the evidence, as not only is it a book about the history of Christianity, but it is also historically accurate document.
Additionally, in response to the second question, what worldwide evidence would you be looking for? You are asking Wrangor to prove that there was a flood, how would you prove that there wasn't? Because science doesn't prove it? Science 1000 years couldn't prove that the world was round, but we now know that it is. From my knowledge (which is, admittedly, incomplete), I cannot prove that there was a flood. You cannot definitively prove that there was not a flood. Maybe, 100 years from now, our knowledge of science and the world will be able to prove that there is evidence of a flood and will be able to explain it. Maybe it never will. If scientific evidence does prove there was a flood, it just proves that there is a God who works thru means that I can understand. If it doesn't, I will continue to believe that it occurred, He just worked thru supernatural means that I do not understand. Either way, I still put my faith in God.
Wrangor has decided to put his faith in the Christian God. For the Muslim, this faith is in Muhammad. For many people, the faith is in science (as I see many of the people posting on this thread). In the end, it comes down to faith in something, it is just a question about what you are going to put the faith in.

We can easily look back through local sediment layers to determine what was happening around the world at a given time. There is no evidence of a global flooding event. Not in the past 6,000 years and not in the past hundreds of millions of years. I understand if you want to believe that god set the flood upon man and hid the evidence. It's rubbish, but at least that can be explained within your worldview.
 
I do believe in God and follow the Christian faith but I also have strong belief in science. Some things have been proven. I do have to ask Wrangor, could you ever be convinced that the universe and earth are older than 6,000 to 15,000 years? I mean, would anything (i.e. indisputable proof better than what we have now) convince you?
 
I believe the evidence is in the Bible. You do not.
You can definitively prove that there was not a world wide flood based on your world view, as, from your perspective, there is no evidence of a flood (making an assumption here, admittedly, but I would assume for you, that if science cannot prove it, it must not be true).
I choose to believe something different.
I would argue back with you that you cannot definitively prove that there was not a flood (you can based on CURRENT knowledge, but you cannot prove that in the future that evidence will not arise that proves a flood).
Again, in the end, it comes down to faith. You believe what you can see and prove. I have chosen differently.
 
Do you believe that god covered up evidence of a worldwide flood, or that it was a localized event? How do you explain that there isn't any such worldwide evidence?



THERE ARE OVER 600 GLOBAL FLOOD MYTHS COLLECTED FROM EVERY CONTINENT

Sumerian
The earliest extant flood legend is contained in the fragmentary Sumerian Eridu Genesis, datable by its script to the 17th century BCE.

The story tells how the god Enki warns Ziusudra (meaning "he saw life," in reference to the gift of immortality given him by the gods), of the gods' decision to destroy mankind in a flood—the passage describing why the gods have decided this is lost. Enki instructs Ziusudra (also known as Atrahasis) to build a large boat—the text describing the instructions is also lost. After which he is left to repopulate the earth, as in many other flood legends.

After a flood of seven days, Zi-ud-sura makes appropriate sacrifices and prostrations to An (sky-god) and Enlil (chief of the gods), and is given eternal life in Dilmun (the Sumerian Eden) by An and Enlil.

Babylonian (Epic of Gilgamesh)
In the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh, toward the end of the He who saw the deep version by Sin-liqe-unninni, there are references to the great flood (tablet 11). This was a late addition to the Gilgamesh cycle, largely paraphrased or copied verbatim from the Epic of Atrahasis

The hero Gilgamesh, seeking immortality, searches out Utnapishtim in Dilmun, a kind of paradise on earth. Utnapishtim tells how Ea (equivalent of the Sumerian Enki) warned him of the gods' plan to destroy all life through a great flood and instructed him to build a vessel in which he could save his family, his friends, and his wealth and cattle. After the Deluge the gods repented their action and made Utnapishtim immortal.

Jewish
The best-known version of the Jewish deluge legend is contained in the Book of Genesis (Genesis 6–9). Two non-canonical books, the Enoch and Jubilees, both later than Genesis, contain elaborations on the Genesis story.

Genesis tells how "...the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am grieved that I have made them.'"

God selects Noah, a man who "found favor in the eyes of the Lord" and commands him to build an ark to save Noah, his family, and the Earth's animals and birds. After Noah builds the ark, "all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened". Rain falls for 40 days, the water rises 150 days, and all the high mountains are covered. On the 27th of Cheshvan of the year 1657 from Creation "the earth dried" (Genesis 8:14) completing the 365-day duration of the Great Flood. The ark rests on the mountains, the water recedes for 150 days, until the waters are gone and Noah opens up the ark. At this point Noah sends out a raven and then a dove to see if the flood waters have receded. Noah and the animals leave the ark, Noah offers a sacrifice to God, and God places a rainbow in the clouds as a sign that he will never again destroy the Earth by water.

The apocryphal 2nd century BCE 1st Book of Enoch adds to the Genesis flood story by saying that God sent the Great Flood to rid the earth of the Nephilim, the titanic children of the Grigori, the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis, and of human females.

Islamic
The Quran tells a similar story to the Judeo-Christian Genesis flood story, the major differences being only Noah and few believers from the laity enter the ark. Noah's son (one of four) and his wife refused to enter the ark thinking they will manage the flood by himself. The Quranic ark comes to rest on Mount Judi, traditionally identified with a mountain near Mosul in modern Iraq; the name appears to derive from the local name of the Kurdish people, although this is not certain.

China
There are many sources of flood legends in ancient Chinese literature. Some appear to refer to a worldwide deluge but most versions record only a regional flood:

Shujing, or "Book of History", probably written around 500 BCE or earlier, states in the opening chapters that Emperor Yao is facing the problem of flood waters that "reach to the Heavens". This is the backdrop for the intervention of the famous Da Yu, who succeeded in controlling the floods. He went on to found the first Chinese dynasty. Shanhaijing, "Classic of the Mountain & Seas", ends with the Chinese ruler Da Yu spending ten years to control a deluge whose "floodwaters overflowed heaven"

Chuci, Liezi, Huainanzi, Shuowen Jiezi, Siku Quanshu, Songsi Dashu, and others, as well as many folk legends, all contain references to a woman named Nüwa. Nüwa repairs the broken heavens after a great flood or calamity, and repopulates the world with people. There are many versions of this legend.

The ancient Chinese civilization concentrated at the bank of Yellow River near present day Xian also believed that the severe flooding along the river bank was caused by dragons (representing gods) living in the river being angered by the mistakes of the people.

India
According to the Matsya Purana and Shatapatha Brahmana (I-8, 1-6), the mantri to the king of pre-ancient Dravida, Satyavata who later becomes known as Manu was washing his hands in a river when a little fish swam into his hands and begged him to save its life. He put it in a jar, which it soon outgrew; he successively moved it to a tank, a river and then the ocean. The fish then warned him that a deluge would occur in a week that would destroy all life. Manu therefore built a boat which the fish towed to a mountaintop when the flood came, and thus he survived along with some "seeds of life" to re-establish life on earth. Hindu religious tradition holds the Bhagavata Purana to be one of the works of Vyasa written at the beginning of Kali Yuga.

Andaman Islands
In legends of the aboriginal tribes inhabiting the Andaman Islands people became remiss of the commands given to them at the creation. Puluga, the god creator, ceased to visit them and then without further warning sent a devastating flood. Only four people survived this flood: two men, Loralola and Poilola, and two women, Kalola and Rimalola. When they landed they found they had lost their fire and all living things had perished. Puluga then recreated the animals and plants but does not seem to have given any further instructions, nor did he return the fire to the survivors.

Indonesia
In Batak traditions, the earth rests on a giant snake, Naga-Padoha. One day, the snake tired of its burden and shook the Earth off into the sea. However, the God Batara-Guru saved his daughter by sending a mountain into the sea, and the entire human race descended from her. The Earth was later placed back onto the head of the snake.

Australia
According to the Australian aborigines, in the Dreamtime a huge frog drank all the water in the world and a drought swept across the land. The only way to finish the drought was to make the frog laugh. Animals from all over Australia gathered together and one by one attempted to make the frog laugh. When finally the eel succeeded, the frog opened his sleepy eyes, his big body quivered, his face relaxed, and, at last, he burst into a laugh that sounded like rolling thunder. The water poured from his mouth in a flood. It filled the deepest rivers and covered the land. Only the highest mountain peaks were visible, like islands in the sea. Many men and animals were drowned. The pelican who was blackfella at that time painted himself with white clay and went from island to island in a great canoe, rescuing other blackfellas. Since that time pelicans have been black and white in remembrance of the Great Flood.

New Zealand
In a tradition of the Ngati Porou, a Maori tribe of the east coast of New Zealand's North Island, Ruatapu became angry when his father Uenuku elevated his younger half-brother Kahutia-te-rangi ahead of him. Ruatapu lured Kahutia-te-rangi and a large number of young men of high birth into his canoe, and took them out to sea where he drowned them. He called on the gods to destroy his enemies and threatened to return as the great waves of early summer. As he struggled for his life, Kahutia-te-rangi recited an incantation invoking the southern humpback whales (paikea in Maori) to carry him ashore. Accordingly, he was renamed Paikea, and was the only survivor (Reedy 1997:83-85).

Some versions of the Maori story of Tawhaki contain episodes where the hero causes a flood to destroy the village of his two jealous brothers-in-law. A comment in Grey's Polynesian Mythology may have given the Maori something they did not have before — as A.W Reed put it, "In Polynesian Mythology Grey said that when Tawhaki's ancestors released the floods of heaven, the earth was overwhelmed and all human beings perished — thus providing the Maori with his own version of the universal flood" (Reed 1963:165, in a footnote). Christian influence has led to the appearance of genealogies where Tawhaki's grandfather Hema is reinterpreted as Shem, son of Noah of the biblical deluge.

Malaysia
According to the legend of the Temuan, one of the 18 indigenous tribes of peninsular Malaysia, the "celau" (storm of punishment) is for the sin of the people who angered the gods and ancestors so much that a great flood was sent in punishment. Only two of the Temuan tribes, Mamak and Inak Bungsuk, survived the flood by climbing the Eaglewood tree at "Gunung Raja" (Royal Mountain), which thereafter became the birth place and ancestral home of the Temuan tribe.

Greek
Greek mythology knows three floods. The flood of Ogyges, the flood of Deucalion and the flood of Dardanus, two of which ended two Ages of Man: the Ogygian Deluge ended the Silver Age, and the flood of Deucalion ended the First Bronze Age.

The Ogygian flood is so called because it occurred in the time of Ogyges, a mythical king of Attica. Ogyges is somewhat synonymous with "primeval", "primal" and "earliest dawn". Others say he was the founder and king of Thebes. In many traditions the Ogygian flood is said to have covered the whole world and was so devastating that Attica remained without kings until the reign of Cecrops.

Plato in his Laws, Book III, estimates that this flood occurred 10,000 years before his time. Also in Timaeus and in Critias (111-112) he describes the "great deluge of all" happening 9,000 years before the time of Solon, during the 10th millennium BCE. In addition, the texts report that "many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years" since Athens and Atlantis were preeminent

The theory of the flood in the Aegean Basin proposes that a great flood occurred at the end of the Late Pleistocene or beginning of the Holocene. The Holocene is a geological period that began approximately 11,550 calendar years BP (or about 9600 BCE) and continues to the present. This flood would coincide with the end of the last ice age, estimated at approximately 10,000 years ago, when the sea level rose as much as 130 meters, particularly during Melt-water pulse 1A when sea level rose by about 25 meters in some parts of the northern hemisphere over a period of less than 500 years.

The Peloponnese was connected to the mainland and the Corinthian Gulf was not formed. Islands around Attica, such as Aegina, Salamis and Euboea, were part of the mainland. The Cyclades formed a big island known as Aegeis, while the Bosporus and Hellespont were not formed yet.

These geological findings support the hypothesis that the Ogygian Deluge may well be based on a real event.

Deucalion
The Deucalion legend as told by Apollodorus in The Library has some similarity to Noah's Ark: Prometheus advised his son Deucalion to build a chest. All other men perished except for a few who escaped to high mountains. The mountains in Thessaly were parted, and all the world beyond the Isthmus and Peloponnese was overwhelmed. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha, after floating in the chest for nine days and nights, landed on Parnassus. An older version of the story told by Hellanicus has Deucalion's "ark" landing on Mount Othrys in Thessaly.

Another account has him landing on a peak, probably Phouka, in Argolis, later called Nemea. When the rains ceased, he sacrificed to Zeus. Then, at the bidding of Zeus, he threw stones behind him, and they became men, and the stones which Pyrrha threw became women. Appollodorus gives this as an etymology for Greek Laos "people" as derived from laas "stone". The Megarians told that Megarus, son of Zeus, escaped Deucalion's flood by swimming to the top of Mount Gerania, guided by the cries of cranes.

Dardanus
This one has the same basic story line. According to Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Dardanus left Pheneus in Arcadia to colonize a land in the North-East Aegean Sea. When the Dardanus' deluge occurred, the land was flooded and the mountain on which he and his family survived, formed the island of Samothrace. He left Samothrace on an inflated skin to the opposite shores of Asia Minor and settled at the foot of Mount Ida. Due to the fear of another flood they didn't build a city, but lived in the open for fifty years. His grandson Tros eventually built a city, which was named Troy after him.

The Theogony of Apollodorus
This one has the same basic story line as Deucalion. Prometheus moulded men out of water and earth and gave them also fire, which, unknown to Zeus, he had hidden in a stalk of fennel. But when Zeus learned of it, he ordered Hephaestus to nail his body to Mount Caucasus, which is a Scythian mountain. On it Prometheus was nailed and kept bound for many years. Every day an eagle swooped on him and devoured the lobes of his liver, which grew by night. That was the penalty that Prometheus paid for the theft of fire until Hercules afterwards released him.

And Prometheus had a son Deucalion. He reigning in the regions about Phthia, married Pyrrha, the daughter of Epimetheus and Pandora, the first woman fashioned by the gods. And when Zeus would destroy the men of the Bronze Age, Deucalion by the advice of Prometheus constructed a chest, and having stored it with provisions he embarked in it with Pyrrha. But Zeus by pouring heavy rain from heaven flooded the greater part of Greece, so that all men were destroyed, except a few who fled to the high mountains in the neighbourhood and Peloponnesus was overwhelmed. But Deucalion, floating in the chest over the sea for nine days and as many nights, drifted to Parnassus, and there, when the rain ceased, he landed and sacrificed to Zeus, the god of Escape. And Zeus sent Hermes to him and allowed him to choose what he would, and he chose to get men.
 
Your evidence is shared myth? By that logic, there's tons of evidence for dragons and polytheism. Are you a heathen, Lectro?
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ev...t-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

The story of Noah's Ark and the Great Flood is one of the most famous from the Bible, and now an acclaimed underwater archaeologist thinks he has found proof that the biblical flood was actually based on real events.

ABC News
In an interview with Christiane Amanpour for ABC News, Robert Ballard, one of the world's best-known underwater archaeologists, talked about his findings. His team is probing the depths of the Black Sea off the coast of Turkey in search of traces of an ancient civilization hidden underwater since the time of Noah.

See photos from her journey HERE

Ballard's track record for finding the impossible is well known. In 1985, using a robotic submersible equipped with remote-controlled cameras, Ballard and his crew hunted down the world's most famous shipwreck, the Titanic.

Now Ballard is using even more advanced robotic technology to travel farther back in time. He is on a marine archeological mission that might support the story of Noah. He said some 12,000 years ago, much of the world was covered in ice.

"Where I live in Connecticut was ice a mile above my house, all the way back to the North Pole, about 15 million kilometers, that's a big ice cube," he said. "But then it started to melt. We're talking about the floods of our living history."

The water from the melting glaciers began to rush toward the world's oceans, Ballard said, causing floods all around the world.

"The questions is, was there a mother of all floods," Ballard said.

According to a controversial theory proposed by two Columbia University scientists, there really was one in the Black Sea region. They believe that the now-salty Black Sea was once an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland, until it was flooded by an enormous wall of water from the rising Mediterranean Sea. The force of the water was two hundred times that of Niagara Falls, sweeping away everything in its path.

Fascinated by the idea, Ballard and his team decided to investigate.

"We went in there to look for the flood," he said. "Not just a slow moving, advancing rise of sea level, but a really big flood that then stayed... The land that went under stayed under."

Four hundred feet below the surface, they unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred.

"It probably was a bad day," Ballard said. "At some magic moment, it broke through and flooded this place violently, and a lot of real estate, 150,000 square kilometers of land, went under."

The theory goes on to suggest that the story of this traumatic event, seared into the collective memory of the survivors, was passed down from generation to generation and eventually inspired the biblical account of Noah.

Noah is described in the Bible as a family man, a father of three, who is about to celebrate his 600th birthday.

"In the early chapters of Genesis, people live 800 years, 700 years, 900 years," said Rabbi Burt Visotzky, a professor of Talmud and Rabbinics at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. "Those are mythic numbers, those are way too big. We don't quite know what to do with that. So sometimes those large numbers, I think, also serve to reinforce the mystery of the text."

Some of the details of the Noah story seem mythical, so many biblical scholars believe the story of Noah and the Ark was inspired by the legendary flood stories of nearby Mesopotamia, in particular "The Epic of Gilgamesh." These ancient narratives were already being passed down from one generation to the next, centuries before Noah appeared in the Bible.

"The earlier Mesopotamian stories are very similar where the gods are sending a flood to wipe out humans," said biblical archaeologist Eric Cline. "There's one man they choose to survive. He builds a boat and brings on animals and lands on a mountain and lives happily ever after? I would argue that it's the same story."

Catastrophic events of this kind are not unique to the Bible. Some contemporary examples include the 2004 tsunami that wiped out villages on the coasts of 11 countries surrounding the Indian Ocean. There was also Hurricane Katrina, described as the worst hurricane in United States history.

Scholars aren't sure if the biblical flood was larger or smaller than these modern day disasters, but they do think the experiences of people in ancient times were similar to our own.

"If you witness a terrible natural disaster, yes, you want a scientific explanation why this has happened," said Karen Armstrong, author of "A History of God." "But you also need to something that will help you to assuage your grief and anguish and rage. And it is here that myth helps us through that."

Regardless of whether the details of the Noah story are historically accurate, Armstrong believes this story and all the Biblical stories are telling us "about our predicament in the world now."

Back in the Black Sea, Ballard said he is aware that not everyone agrees with his conclusions about the time and size of the flood, but he's confident he's on the path to finding something from the biblical period.

"We started finding structures that looked like they were man-made structures," Ballard said. "That's where we are focusing our attention right now."

At first Ballard's team found piles of ancient pottery, but then they made an even more important discovery. Last year, Ballard discovered a vessel and one of its crew members in the Black Sea.

"That is a perfectly preserved ancient shipwreck in all its wood, looks like a lumber yard," he said. "But if you look closely, you will see the femur bone and actually a molar."

The shipwreck was in surprisingly good condition, preserved because the Black Sea has almost no oxygen in it, which slows down the process of decay, but it does not date back as far as the story of Noah.

"The oldest shipwreck that we have discovered so far of that area is around 500 BC, classical period," Ballard said. "But the question is you just keep searching. It's a matter of statistics."

Still, Ballard said the find gives him hope that he will discover something older "because there, in fact, the deep sea is the largest museum on Earth," he said.

Ballard does not think he will ever find Noah's Ark, but he does think he may find evidence of a people whose entire world was washed away about 7,000 years ago. He and his team said they plan to return to Turkey next summer.

"It's foolish to think you will ever find a ship," Ballard said, referring to the Ark. "But can you find people who were living? Can you find their villages that are underwater now? And the answer is yes."
 
Robert Ballard bio:

Robert D. Ballard (born 1942) has made some of the most important underwater discoveries in the late twentieth century in regards to science and exploration. Not only did he help advance the concept of plate tectonics and make important discoveries about ocean life, he also managed to find some of the most famous shipwrecks in history, including the German battleship Bismarck, the U.S.S. Yorktown from World War II, and the luxury liner Titanic.

Thanks to advances in technology, including night-vision cameras and fiber optics, scientists like Ballard can help bring information about the ships back up to the surface. "There's more history preserved in the deep sea than in all the museums of the world combined," Ballard suggested to Paul Karon in the Los Angeles Times. Despite all of his accomplishments in geology, oceanography, and archaeology, Ballard still gets most excited about his capability to scout new territories. "I think of myself as an explorer-that was always my career goal," he told Karon. "If I could go to Mars tomorrow, I'm gone."

Robert Duane Ballard was born June 30, 1942, in Wichita, Kansas, to Chester Patrick (an aerospace executive) and Harriet Nell (May) Ballard. However, Ballard and his three siblings were raised in southern California, where he developed a passion for the sea. The fair-haired teenager would spend much of his time at the beach near his home in San Diego, becoming an avid swimmer, surfer, fisherman, and scuba diver. Ballard's father was a flight engineer at a testing ground in the Mojave Desert, but was later appointed the U.S. Navy's representative to the famous Scripps Institute of Oceanography. When he was still in high school, Ballard wrote a letter to the Scripps Institute that asked, "I love the ocean-what can I do?" he recalled to Bayard Webster in the New York Times. Subsequently, the school invited him to attend a summer program.
 
Your evidence is shared myth? By that logic, there's tons of evidence for dragons and polytheism. Are you a heathen, Lectro?

Not to mention the problem that assuming these shared myths prove the existence of Noah's flood. They also prove that Noah would not be the only survivor, IMO because of the racial and cultural differences of the mythical explanations.
 
I believe that Wrangor would believe in the idea of a world wide flood, and not a localized event. Wrangor (as I) believe in a literal Bible, believing that the events listed in the Bible actually occurred. There was no cover up, the Bible provides the evidence, as not only is it a book about the history of Christianity, but it is also historically accurate document.
Additionally, in response to the second question, what worldwide evidence would you be looking for? You are asking Wrangor to prove that there was a flood, how would you prove that there wasn't? Because science doesn't prove it? Science 1000 years couldn't prove that the world was round, but we now know that it is. From my knowledge (which is, admittedly, incomplete), I cannot prove that there was a flood. You cannot definitively prove that there was not a flood. Maybe, 100 years from now, our knowledge of science and the world will be able to prove that there is evidence of a flood and will be able to explain it. Maybe it never will. If scientific evidence does prove there was a flood, it just proves that there is a God who works thru means that I can understand. If it doesn't, I will continue to believe that it occurred, He just worked thru supernatural means that I do not understand. Either way, I still put my faith in God.
Wrangor has decided to put his faith in the Christian God. For the Muslim, this faith is in Muhammad. For many people, the faith is in science (as I see many of the people posting on this thread). In the end, it comes down to faith in something, it is just a question about what you are going to put the faith in.

Actually a Muslim is putting his/her faith in the same deity as the Christian. Muhammad would be more similar to the Biblical literalist's attachment to Scripture, an infallible vehicle to understand God.
 
Not to mention the problem that assuming these shared myths prove the existence of Noah's flood. They also prove that Noah would not be the only survivor, IMO because of the racial and cultural differences of the mythical explanations.

Sigh...send in the dwarves...

Nobody said anything of the sort. I simply produced the "fact" that the Bible is hardly alone in recording the story of a world wide flood. It is a tale told by every culture and civilization.
 
Back
Top