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Examining racial inequality through the lens of Wake football players

Sailor, while posting from Europe , is asking people to cut and paste an article on racial inequality so that he can read it for free. Does anyone else find that amusing because I sure do.
 
Grow A Pair said:
I would like to be asked the same question that the gentleman beside me and the two young ladies in front of me are asked when striking up conversation -- "did you go to Wake?" There's absolutely no reason to assume any different when inquiring with me. That question usually results in the follow-up questions of year/major/occupation/city of residence/common acquaintances, all of which I'm more than happy to answer. I absolutely love meeting fellow Deacs, but I've never once asked another person--black or white--who wasn't wearing a player's # if they had a son on the team. Intuitively, that's maybe third or fourth on my association list. When the first question is "which one is your son?" the unfiltered part of my brain wants to say, "oh naw sir, since I could read and write, massah let me go to the big fancy school, too!":bowdown:
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Yep. Ask questions designed to find information not questions designed to confirm stereotypes.
 
What makes all this so difficult is that the overriding topic has been "Black Lives Matter'. And that topic covers so wide and deep a range of emotional issues that we find ourselves discussing here only one particular component. Overall it addresses our truly unrealized racism and tribalism which simply cannot be fixed with rules - yet try we must. So exactly what changes are desired? Some give general examples that point to our faults. And some give specifics that startle us with their extremism for specific change. When they are defined it becomes clearer the issues are deep seated, and economic and social preferences block changes.
Regarding our related athletic issues - both racial and economic, it all may have started with the athletic dorms in the 60s - separating the student from the student-athlete. But ended later . Yet the more the black student-athletes became prized recruits, the more the separation... leading to what is becoming a form of paid employees with rights - and more separation for the black athlete.
 
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Keep it simple NewBernDeac. Focus on how differently blacks are treated by the police and the justice system. Their lives are regarded as disposable. Make an impact on that in New Bern. It will be the most difficult task of your life. Accomplish that task and you will have made the lives of many of your neighbors better.
 
When I used to attend Wake functions, I would often ask people if they went to Wake because I don’t know everyone who went to Wake and people bring their spouses. I don’t go to a lot of Wake functions these days (pre-Covid) because they’re lame as shit.
 
To be fair, I’m sure dudes like Cade Carney got asked if they play a sport / what sport they play. Guys like me did not get asked that question.
 
We are all stereotypes

You got lucky that he was kind enough to tolerate your stereotypes. You’re also lucky that Wake has so few Black men students who don’t play sports that the odds are in your favor. That’s a loaded question and it’s pretty despicable to ask it unless you have a reason to ask it besides their race.

I think you have proven my point. He might not be as twisted as you are with your touchy antenna. DESPICABLE? how about an interesting conversation between two people.

no doubt you have plenty of stereotypes of your own.
 
So you’d be fine if I started a conversation asking how much money your parents donated so you could get into Wake.

You asked him a question to confirm your stereotype, not to find out information about him.
 
Congratulations

Grow A Pair said:
Been a hot minute since I posted on this board, but I couldn't let this one go without comment. Probably giving away my identity but since I don't post, I don't really care.

I'm a black female who goes to all of the home football games and 90% of the away games (100% if BC & Cuse aren't on the schedule...been there, done that, not keen to go back). Without failure, I will be asked at least once during an away game, "which one is your son?" Twelve years ago, the question was, "are you dating someone on the team?" First of all, I just turned 41 but I've been getting this question since my early 30s which assumed I had to have been a teen mom..thanks for putting that stereotype on me. BTW, I don't have any kids at 41 either. Secondly, the player ticket allotments are in a different part of the visitor section. Lastly, those people typically have on a jersey, t-shirt, button, hat or something that identifies them as related to a player. I have on black and gold/beige/yellow, sometimes a WF logo, but never anything that suggests I'm partial to a certain player; yet, I get the question EVERY GAME. I am not exaggerating.

I have an undergraduate degree from MSD. I worked at MSD. I'm southern born and bred, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I'm smart enough to recognize the micro-aggression when it slaps me in the face every fall. People assume I'm at the games because I'm a breeder; and it's indisputable when the white guy sitting next to me is asked, "did ya go to Wake or are you from Winston?". Excuse me?!? It doesn't even cross their mind that I'm an alumna until I say, "no, I graduated in '01 and worked at the university." And the subsequent, "Ohhhh wow!" is even more insulting, like I'm an anomaly. Maybe voluntarily trekking to god awful Tallahassee in September is, but not being a black female with a degree from WF. There are a lot of us--doctors, lawyers, artists, CMOs, bankers :thumbsup: I had a partial merit scholarship and my parents paid the rest of my COA, so I earned my spot and my parents paid for me to attend this university. I've been a Deac fan since I was four years old and saw Muggsy playing.

Fortunately, these unconscious biases haven't deterred me from loving and supporting Wake as much as I do. I still go to the Charlotte events if I'm in town and the Deac Club tailgates at the away games. I won't let the arrogance of those who would dismiss the experiences of the underrepresented because it doesn't apply to them deter me (and make no mistake, it's nothing less than arrogance...always is in a environment where affluence controls and entitlement runs rampant, which is why racial, religious, socioeconomic and regional diversity is necessary in a culture like Wake's). I come from a long line of disrupters -- my parents were protesters in the 60s and my dad is still agitating people in his mid-70s. I piss people off weekly--myself included--with uncomfortable truths, and no one's died yet.
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micro-aggression: the new pathology
 
Yes, to be asked, maybe not first question in a conversation, did you play, etc. is a level of recognition that you possible did play and deserving of some acknowledgment that you possessed a talent and achieved at a level few others did.
 
raldeac said:
Yes, to be asked, maybe not first question in a conversation, did you play, etc. is a level of recognition that you possible did play and deserving of some acknowledgment that you possessed a talent and achieved at a level few others did.
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Nobody is saying that you should downplay the fact that being an ACC student athlete is impressive.

What these student athletes are saying they are upset about is that their peers are associating their presence on campus, and ability to be academically accepted into the school, solely with playing football. And the reason this association is being made is often based on the race of the athlete. They want to be viewed as fellow students/alumna, not people that are here so we can have a football team. It’s as simple as that, and I’m really not sure why there would be any pushback on that.
 
Good grief, asking a male black student if he plays football is pretty damn racist. Unless there is some other indicator - like he's 6'5", 265 and cut - then maybe it is OK? Just think about it - is there something about the guy that would make you ask the question if he was white? If not, then you shouldn't be asking it. Just like the lady at the game - why would you ask her which player is her son, without some other indicator? That is weird.

During my time at Wake I don't remember feeling that the football players were separated from the rest of us because they were black - it seemed like it was more because they were football players. They tended to stay together and travel in packs, they were always busy with workouts, practice, travel, spring ball, study hall, whatever - I personally did not have a lot of opportunity to interact with them. I wasn't a part of the greek system, but I do realize we never saw them at the frat parties - it never crossed my mind at the time to wonder why.
 
deacon14 said:
You missed most of the point. The point was that black student athletes at Wake often feel that their peers assume that they are only capable of getting into Wake Forest, and doing the academic work at Wake Forest, because of their status as athletes. By immediately assuming that a black student on campus is an athlete, you would be implicitly saying to that student that you think they were accepted to Wake Forest as an athlete and not as a student. This is an indirect (and sometimes unintentional!) way of looking down on those student athletes

I would assume that you had context clues (you were at a football game) in your example that suggested it was likely that person played football. Regardless, telling one story that you experienced does not mean that the quote expressing the experiences of the student athlete in Conor’s article is not valid or a ridiculous criticism of our society.
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deacon 14: I never said-or implied-that Conner's article was not valid. My defensive society quote remains especially after reading some of the comments here, which appear to insist that I go through a checklist of possible racial implications before I speak to anyone of another ethnic group. Could it be that Mr. Taylor might be assuming to much.
 
History2001 said:
micro-aggression: the new pathology
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Good Lord. Grow a Pair is the best of us. Maybe there are a handful of people who post here who have been to as many games as her in the last 20 years. Maybe. She used to be a regular poster, but she hasn't posted regularly in a long time. There are other Black posters who don't post here much anymore as well. As far as regular Black posters, as far as I know, it's basically just me. GJGE, guys.

History2001 said:
deacon 14: I never said-or implied-that Conner's article was not valid. My defensive society quote remains especially after reading some of the comments here, which appear to insist that I go through a checklist of possible racial implications before I speak to anyone of another ethnic group. Could it be that Mr. Taylor might be assuming to much.
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Yet you're the one being defensive. Nobody is asking you to go through a checklist. Just don't be a dick. Ask a Black person at a Wake game the same questions you'd ask a White person. "What years did you go to Wake?" "Did you know so and so?" "Did you go to that big game when we beat UNC/Duke/State/whoever?" "How often do you get back to campus?"

Think of how absurd it would be if you asked some random white dude in a Wake shirt "Which sport did you play at Wake?"
 
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Thanks for shedding light on this, Conor.

As most of you know, I played football at Wake in the '90s. I'm also the managing partner of my law firm's DC office. I gave a talk to my office after seeing the George Floyd tape where I describe negative experiences I've had with law enforcement--including being arrested as a student at Wake for a crime I didnt commit. It's called Our Pain and attempts to foster empathy through my personal experiences.

I originally shared this on the Pit but it's relevant to this discussion. The responses I've gotten have been unanimously positive. John Currie called me when he heard it and we had a long, heartfelt conversation about it. He then shared it at his next staff meeting. So I'm curious to see if any of the "I dont see racism" folks chime in in response.

https://soundcloud.com/user-237509730
 
NewBernDeac said:
What makes all this so difficult is that the overriding topic has been "Black Lives Matter'. And that topic covers so wide and deep a range of emotional issues that we find ourselves discussing here only one particular component. Overall it addresses our truly unrealized racism and tribalism which simply cannot be fixed with rules - yet try we must. So exactly what changes are desired? Some give general examples that point to our faults. And some give specifics that startle us with their extremism for specific change. When they are defined it becomes clearer the issues are deep seated, and economic and social preferences block changes.
Regarding our related athletic issues - both racial and economic, it all may have started with the athletic dorms in the 60s - separating the student from the student-athlete. But ended later . Yet the more the black student-athletes became prized recruits, the more the separation... leading to what is becoming a form of paid employees with rights - and more separation for the black athlete.
Click to expand...

Holy fuck. Your takeaway from Black Lives Matter is that student athletes shouldn’t be paid?
 
MagicDeac said:
Thanks for shedding light on this, Conor.

As most of you know, I played football at Wake in the '90s. I'm also the managing partner of my law firm's DC office. I gave a talk to my office after seeing the George Floyd tape where I describe negative experiences I've had with law enforcement--including being arrested as a student at Wake for a crime I didnt commit. It's called Our Pain and attempts to foster empathy through my personal experiences.

I originally shared this on the Pit but it's relevant to this discussion. The responses I've gotten have been unanimously positive. John Currie called me when he heard it and we had a long, heartfelt conversation about it. He then shared it at his next staff meeting. So I'm curious to see if any of the "I dont see racism" folks chime in in response.

https://soundcloud.com/user-237509730
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing this. I encourage others to listen to these words from a fellow Deac.
 
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