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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

bobknightfan said:
LOL. Play that permanent "Get Out of Jail Free" card, Childress. If there is one thing you excel at, it's the ability to make excuses. Making excuses might work in hypothetical classroom cases but, unfortunately, if you ever get around to getting out there in the real world, you're going to find that just continuing to make excuses won't cut it.
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In my experience, I've found making excuses doesn't get you far in the real world or in the classroom. Neither does ignorance. Despite being told countless times that I in fact have "gotten around to getting out in the real world" you continue to claim otherwise.

Do you think systemic institutional discrimination against racial minorities has been eliminated in this country?

If not, do you think it doesn't contribute significantly to the problems discussed on this thread?

It is interesting to hear you talk about excuses though, since you seem very comfortable making them for police officers who shoot unarmed black men (or children) and coaches who abuse their players.
 
knowell said:
This is just foolishness. You want to blame all of this on white racism. This country has never been less racist. No country on earth has ever bent so far backwards to try and prevent racism at all levels. There will never be anything that can be done to satisfy you. You want equality of outcome. That cannot be legislated.
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Nope just an equal playing field. I'll be satisfied with that. Just because we might be more equal than we've ever been, or more equal than other countries, doesn't mean we are equal.

Relative measures are useless when trying to measure an objective standard.


I think in reality the backlash against fixing systemic racism is a subconscious fear of equal outcomes. People in power are typically fine with unequal outcomes. So much so that they become blind to the inequalities which create those outcomes.
 
jhmd2000 said:
And another cause in far too many cases is poor decision making, and I would argue, a more acute and less attenuated cause than housing policy from two generations ago. Perhaps I missed the hordes of wildly successful white high school dropout parents, who had the privilege of benefiting from those policies. Link?

Then again, I lack empathy because I find the status quo unacceptable and do not agree with continuing failed policies.
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That in and of itself is fine. It's even fine to say we can't truly fix some of the systemic causes unless we first address some of the most severe acute symptoms. It's inaccurate to say the systemic issues don't exist or to suggest the impact of such issues is minor.
 
RChildress107 said:
That in and of itself is fine. It's even fine to say we can't truly fix some of the systemic causes unless we first address some of the most severe acute symptoms. It's inaccurate to say the systemic issues don't exist or to suggest the impact of such issues is minor.
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Who is saying that?
 
RChildress107 said:
Nope just an equal playing field. I'll be satisfied with that. Just because we might be more equal than we've ever been, or more equal than other countries, doesn't mean we are equal.

Relative measures are useless when trying to measure an objective standard.


I think in reality the backlash against fixing systemic racism is a subconscious fear of equal outcomes. People in power are typically fine with unequal outcomes. So much so that they become blind to the inequalities which create those outcomes.
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You just keep on shoveling that manure. What could be more equal than a race neutral playing field.

You keep lining people up on two sides and keep them fighting with each other and soon we will see equality and racial harmony.
 
bobknightfan said:
RChildress107 said:
In my experience, I've found making excuses doesn't get you far in the real world or in the classroom. Neither does ignorance. Despite being told countless times that I in fact have "gotten around to getting out in the real world" you continue to claim otherwise.

Do you think systemic institutional discrimination against racial minorities has been eliminated in this country? For the most part, yes. There is a big difference between individual discriminatory acts and "systemic institutional discrimination"....but you specified the latter.

If not, do you think it doesn't contribute significantly to the problems discussed on this thread? [B]My previous answer makes this question irrelevant.

[/B]It is interesting to hear you talk about excuses though, since you seem very comfortable making them for police officers who shoot unarmed black men (or children) and coaches who abuse their players. This is just pure hyperbole that doesn't even warrant a response..
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Then it's really useless continuing a conversation with you. That's an unfortunate point of view and I'd encourage you to take a closer look at it. Unfortunately I think it's a common viewpoint among older generations who feel that they "solved" systemic racism when all they really did was make it more subtle (an accomplishment to be sure, but not a solution).

I guess me pointing out (again) your blatant misrepresentation of my real world experience didn't warrant a response either.
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RChildress107 said:
First bold is an underlying cause.

Second bold simply isn't true.

Third bold is a symptom.

I think the enlarged text represents the fundamental disagreement. IMO, if you think the system of institutional discrimination was either mostly eradicated in the 60's or not the primary cause of violence, absentee fathers, unemployment, etc. in the minority community then you have your head in the sand.
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Seriously? If every state senator donned a KKK hood and was openly burning crosses in someone's front yard, it still wouldn't be the primary cause of one gang member shooting another, a father running out on his kids and never showing his face, or someone not trying to find or sticking with a job. All of those are direct individual decisions. I don't deny that institutional discrumination existed, and still exists in certain areas, but to use it as an excuse for every individual problem doesn't work.
 
knowell said:
You just keep on shoveling that manure. What could be more equal than a race neutral playing field.

You keep lining people up on two sides and keep them fighting with each other and soon we will see equality and racial harmony.
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A playing field that doesn't start with the majority way ahead due to a hundred years of systemized oppression.


Imagine if 5 guys came to your house in the middle of the night, kidnapped you, and literally beat you down for days on end. Eventually a couple of the guys say "hey this isn't fair, maybe we should stop." Finally the beatings stop except for one guy who wants to keep fighting. The other four guys prop you up and say "OK, everything's equal now, you are on your own."

Would that be an equal playing field?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Seriously? If every state senator donned a KKK hood and was openly burning crosses in someone's front yard, it still wouldn't be the primary cause of one gang member shooting another, a father running out on his kids and never showing his face, or someone not trying to find or sticking with a job. All of those are direct individual decisions. I don't deny that institutional discrumination existed, and still exists in certain areas, but to use it as an excuse for every individual problem doesn't work.
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Seriously.

I imagine when you watch Trading Places you think "this movie is totally unrealistic. Winthorpe would just make good choices, get a job, and be right back on top in a couple of years while Billy Ray would be right back on the street in a heartbeat". Your life must suck.
 
bobknightfan said:
I am, for one. When one defines something as systemic, he has set the bar pretty high. Here is the definition of "systemic":

Systemic refers to something that is spread throughout, system-wide, affecting a group or system, such as a body, economy, market or society as a whole.


I would like for Childress (or anyone else) to give me some proven examples....not just subjective opinions....of "systemic racism" today.

I've already agreed that racism still exists (and that river flows both ways), so there is no argument that you can find examples of racism in the country....but what I want to see are proven examples of "systemic racism" today.
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I highly encourage you to check out Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow". http://newjimcrow.com/.
 
RChildress107 said:
Seriously.

I imagine when you watch Trading Places you think "this movie is totally unrealistic. Winthorpe would just make good choices, get a job, and be right back on top in a couple of years while Billy Ray would be right back on the street in a heartbeat". Your life must suck.
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So then what is the cause of violence, absentee fathers, and unemployment in the white community? If racism is the primary cause of those things in the black community, is there a similar primary cause for the white community? Or are blacks just that much superior to whites such that they do not have the individual character flaws that manifest themselves in murder, bastardism, and unemployment in the white community?
 
RChildress107 said:
A playing field that doesn't start with the majority way ahead due to a hundred years of systemized oppression.


Imagine if 5 guys came to your house in the middle of the night, kidnapped you, and literally beat you down for days on end. Eventually a couple of the guys say "hey this isn't fair, maybe we should stop." Finally the beatings stop except for one guy who wants to keep fighting. The other four guys prop you up and say "OK, everything's equal now, you are on your own."

Would that be an equal playing field?
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So the playing field will never be equal in your mind. At least you'll always have a go-to argument that will never be taken away. A lot like the bible-thumpers: "It's true because it's in the book." Hard to argue with that.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
So then what is the cause of violence, absentee fathers, and unemployment in the white community? If racism is the primary cause of those things in the black community, is there a similar primary cause for the white community? Or are blacks just that much superior to whites such that they do not have the individual character flaws that manifest themselves in murder, bastardism, and unemployment in the white community?
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You are making my point for me.

If the explanation for violence, absentee fathers, and unemployment is primarily direct individual decisions then you would expect to see similar rates of those things regardless of race

UNLESS you are suggesting that certain races are inherently worse at making those individual decisions.
 
RChildress107 said:
You are making my point for me.

If the explanation for violence, absentee fathers, and unemployment is primarily direct individual decisions then you would expect to see similar rates of those things regardless of race

UNLESS you are suggesting that certain races are inherently worse at making those individual decisions.
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Or different cultures value and promote different things.
 
RChildress107 said:
A playing field that doesn't start with the majority way ahead due to a hundred years of systemized oppression.


Imagine if 5 guys came to your house in the middle of the night, kidnapped you, and literally beat you down for days on end. Eventually a couple of the guys say "hey this isn't fair, maybe we should stop." Finally the beatings stop except for one guy who wants to keep fighting. The other four guys prop you up and say "OK, everything's equal now, you are on your own."

Would that be an equal playing field?
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I completely agree with you. If that should happen to someone, that would be unfair.

Of course if that happened to my great grandfather and no one was trying to beat me up now, then maybe a level playing field would be equitable.
 
TownieDeac said:
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This is accurate and I wish more people were saying it. And I do blame the media for this aspect as the media has painted the issue as all one side or the other.
 
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