Family Separation at the Border: US citizens are now being detained

[birdman]

So a conspiracy website was posting conspiracies, no way.

Infowars has been granted White house press credentials on occasion, which elevates it beyond the status of conspiracy website. When the republicans nominate and elect a conspiracy theorist to the white house, this is what happens.

 

[birdman]

But I think you are missing the point Catamount, The lying left liberal media makes mistakes every now and then, usually they own up to it and sometimes even before they are found out and ridiculed they admit their mistake (and print a correction uaually), as was apparently the case with this photo of the crying little girl. Sailor posts it as if there is some sort of deep state media conspiracy to make the president look bad claiming that the media is a pack of "lying lefties". Right wing websites do this, they do it it more often, they do it vehemently, they do it intentionally, in fact it is really their whole business model. Simpleton's like Sailor eat it up as legitimate journalism, while simultaneously accusing the lying lefty media of intentionally lying to undermine Trump. These are insane times.

 

[Coach O]

Wasn't there legit questions about Melania's immigration status during the election? Didn't the Trump campaign promise to produce documents about it? Didn't Melania's parents just become citizens via chain migration a few months ago? Is Barron considered an "anchor baby?"

Doesn't something seem wrong to you about all this?

 

[WFcatamount22]

But I think you are missing the point Catamount, The lying left liberal media makes mistakes every now and then, usually they own up to it and sometimes even before they are found out and ridiculed they admit their mistake (and print a correction uaually), as was apparently the case with this photo of the crying little girl. Sailor posts it as if there is some sort of deep state media conspiracy to make the president look bad claiming that the media is a pack of "lying lefties". Right wing websites do this, they do it it more often, they do it vehemently, they do it intentionally, in fact it is really their whole business model. Simpleton's like Sailor eat it up as legitimate journalism, while simultaneously accusing the lying lefty media of intentionally lying to undermine Trump. These are insane times.

I think it is fair criticism to say that the MSM (right or left) use one off anecdotal emotional articles, that while not factually dishonest, intentionally to try to mislead people in order to create a false narrative about the bigger picture as a whole.

 

[birdman]

I think it is fair criticism to say that the MSM (right or left) use one off anecdotal emotional articles, that while not factually dishonest, intentionally try to mislead people in order to create a false narrative about the bigger picture as a whole.

This is an intentionally dishonest narrative about the media's intentions. They may use one off anecdotal emotional articles, that while not factually dishonest, are intended to get more clicks and sell more ad space, but main stream media are not trying to influence the bigger picture as a whole. CNN, MSN, NYTimes, etc. are corporate entities all about the Benjamins, they are nothing more. Fox, on the other hand, has descended into the realm of GOP propaganda machine, but that is really a cynical ploy to make more money too. The only way these outlets are trying to change the way society looks at an issues to try and make money off it, not to change a policy outcome or somehow influence our moral code.

 

[Coach O]

I think it is fair criticism to say that the MSM (right or left) use one off anecdotal emotional articles, that while not factually dishonest, intentionally to try to mislead people in order to create a false narrative about the bigger picture as a whole.

Very fine people on both sides.

 

[sailordeac]

little louis having a temper tantrum after confronting inconvenient facts, needs a time out, on his knees in the corner, as everyone knows that is his preferred position

 

[birdman]

little louis having a temper tantrum after confronting inconvenient facts, needs a time out, on his knees in the corner, as everyone knows that is his preferred position

"Must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees..."

 

[IamThunderbolt]

So at this point we are back to Obama era policies after the executive order right? Is there something I am missing?

This seemingly legitimate question got passed over.

Things are not the same. The "zero-tolerance" policy is still in effect, which is the policy that resulted in the child separation.

US Law currently allows individuals with a credible fear of persecution to request asylum whether the individual enters with a valid Visa, requests asylum at a port of entry, or is apprehended seeking to enter without a visa and requests asylum within a reasonable amount of time. Furthermore, before this policy, first time offenders were often tried in a civil rather than criminal preceding to see if they should be allowed asylum or returned to their home country. Under the new policy, all asylum seekers in this third category (and all who cross the border not at a POE) will be fully prosecuted in a criminal trial (crossing the boarder is a misdemeanor).

The policy removes discretion from border agents and prosecutes all people crossing the border, whether they are seeking asylum or not.

Because there are laws against how long you can detain a child (20 days under the Flores agreement), this leads to child separation.

With the executive order, the zero-tolerance policy stays intact and families are just detained in jail-like setting together. Without a change in the Flores agreement, this presents a huge problem and may result in the further separation of children and families anyway.

So, no it still is different than in previous administrations.

 

[06deacon]

I think it is fair criticism to say that the MSM (right or left) use one off anecdotal emotional articles, that while not factually dishonest, intentionally to try to mislead people in order to create a false narrative about the bigger picture as a whole.

Tell me again about how you do not engage in whataboutism.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

Good to see OGB post again. Always remember you as a level headed and very informed conservative. Curious to know where you stand on other recent issues.

I think any conservative should be appalled by a policy by which the government separates families, from a small-government perspective even if you're immune to the humanitarian concerns. The same goes for police brutality. The conservative knee-jerk reaction to the State killing a citizen should not be one in favor of the State.

In a similar vein, I think that the liberty interest of schoolchildren, concert-goers, and church-members to go about their daily activities without being massacred outweighs the liberty interest of other citizens to own certain types of guns. That may not be the true conservative perspective, but I try to be pragmatic first, and it seems to me to be a common-sense analysis

 

[avalon]

Trump is sad that people didn't like his family separation policy, so he called a press conference featuring people who have lost loved ones due to violence from immigrants. They provided each family with a large picture of their lost loved one for effect and, well:

 

[PhDeac]

I think any conservative should be appalled by a policy by which the government separates families, from a small-government perspective even if you're immune to the humanitarian concerns. The same goes for police brutality. The conservative knee-jerk reaction to the State killing a citizen should not be one in favor of the State.

In a similar vein, I think that the liberty interest of schoolchildren, concert-goers, and church-members to go about their daily activities without being massacred outweighs the liberty interest of other citizens to own certain types of guns. That may not be the true conservative perspective, but I try to be pragmatic first, and it seems to me to be a common-sense analysis

Good post. Welcome back. Good to see sane conservatives posting here.

 

[avalon]

Exclusive: Navy Document Shows Plan to Erect 'Austere' Detention Camps

The Navy memo outlines plans to build “temporary and austere” tent cities to house 25,000 migrants at abandoned airfields just outside the Florida panhandle near Mobile, Alabama, at Navy Outlying Field Wolf in Orange Beach, Alabama, and nearby Navy Outlying Field Silverhill.

The memo also proposes a camp for as many as 47,000 people at former Naval Weapons Station Concord, near San Francisco; and another facility that could house as many as 47,000 people at Camp Pendleton, the Marines’ largest training facility located along the Southern California coast. The planning memo proposes further study of housing an undetermined number of migrants at the Marine Corps Air Station near Yuma, Arizona.

 

[RJKarl]

Trump and his lackeys are talking about how they must enforce the law and punish those who break them. If this is their stance, why isn't Jared in jail for the multiple felonies he committed on his security forms? How about Kelley's lies? Sessions lied to Congress and on his forms, how about his perp walk?

 

[ConnorEl]

Trump is sad that people didn't like his family separation policy, so he called a press conference featuring people who have lost loved ones due to violence from immigrants. They provided each family with a large picture of their lost loved one for effect and, well:

FACT CHECK: Trump, Illegal Immigration And Crime

After days of damaging news stories about an administration policy that separated immigrant families at the Southern border, President Trump tried to change the narrative Friday. He spoke up for grieving family members who have lost loved ones at the hands of people in the country illegally.

Trump has frequently pointed to sympathetic crime victims to justify his get-tough policies at the Southern border. But experts say the president's rhetoric overstates the threat posed by immigrants, who tend to commit crime at lower rates than people who are born in the United States...


...While any death is tragic, a February 2018 study by the Cato Institute using 2015 crime statistics from Texas found immigrants in the country illegally were 25 percent less likely to be convicted of homicide than native-born Americans. (Legal immigrants were 87 percent less likely.)

According to the study, immigrants in the country illegally were also 11.5 percent less likely than native-born Americans to be convicted of sexual assault and 79 percent less likely to be convicted of larceny.

The study found higher conviction rates among illegal immigrants for gambling, kidnapping, smuggling and vagrancy, but those offenses were rare and made up a tiny fraction of overall crime in Texas in 2015.

A separate March 2018 study in the journal Criminology looked at whether violent crime increases as the number of immigrants living illegally in a community goes up. Researchers found it does not. If anything, the opposite is true: Violent crime appears to fall when more immigrants are living in a community illegally.

Trump disputed those findings during his White House event Friday but he did not offer evidence to the contrary...

 

[ConnorEl]

3 Charts That Show What's Actually Happening Along The Southern Border

 

[WakeForestRanger]

Oh that's a perfectly normal thing to do then.

 

[Newenglanddeac]

What. The. Fuck.

 

[PhDeac]

I read somewhere that most of those people died in car accidents involving undocumented immigrants. Not murder. Just car accidents. Is that true?