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Family Separation at the Border: US citizens are now being detained

ChrisL68 said:
it is the most progressive tax system in the world. If you don't want to believe me then believe the oecd. And taxing is very closely related to spending. If a family is making $50,000 a year and I tax them $10,000 instead of $20,000, and then turn around and give them the extra $10,000 I tax them as social spending, then aren't you in the exact same spot? https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...axes-really-are-unusually-progressive/252917/
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So basically a giant tax cut for the wealthy is actually just a giant social welfare spending bill for the wealthy? Interesting.
 
this is a good essay on how Democrats ought to attack Trump on immigration policy. It's a good bit of political jujitsu that turns his constant tweeting about security and MS-13 against him. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/how-to-counter-donald-trump-on-ms13-and-ice/564734/
Let’s stop allowing America’s immigration policy to be dictated by a weak old man’s need to trick his base into thinking that he’s tough by inflicting cruelties on others. Instead, let’s get smarter about targeting criminals and be kinder to innocents. Our safety and our wallets will benefit.
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Democrats have a great record in “getting smarter” on targeting criminals.
 
Deacon923 said:
The tax code got significantly less progressive effective January 1, 2018. It will be interesting to see what this analysis looks like now that we've blown a giant hole in our budget to give giant tax cuts to the top 1%.

I am familiar with the comparative progressiveness of our tax code vs. other countries (mainly, as pointed out, because most of them have VATs which are regressive). However, the net redistribution of our system, taken as a whole, is significantly less progressive because of our massive spending on the military and incarceration, and comparative lack of public spending on health care and higher education. Thus in the US, upper income people pay more taxes but they perceive they get less for their money than similarly situated people in Europe. the top 10% here pay big taxes, but still get killed with health insurance and college costs. They don't see the "benefits" of a giant military and prison-industrial complex in their own lives. I think this dynamic largely fuels some of the rabid anti-tax sentiment we have in the US.
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Lot of truth here.
 
Deacon923 said:
The tax code got significantly less progressive effective January 1, 2018. It will be interesting to see what this analysis looks like now that we've blown a giant hole in our budget to give giant tax cuts to the top 1%.

I am familiar with the comparative progressiveness of our tax code vs. other countries (mainly, as pointed out, because most of them have VATs which are regressive). However, the net redistribution of our system, taken as a whole, is significantly less progressive because of our massive spending on the military and incarceration, and comparative lack of public spending on health care and higher education. Thus in the US, upper income people pay more taxes but they perceive they get less for their money than similarly situated people in Europe. the top 10% here pay big taxes, but still get killed with health insurance and college costs. They don't see the "benefits" of a giant military and prison-industrial complex in their own lives. I think this dynamic largely fuels some of the rabid anti-tax sentiment we have in the US.
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I am not really sure that is the case. It lowered tax revenues and most of the benefit will flow to the people who paid more taxes, but some of those rules will take a higher percentage of people that won't be paying income taxes at all.

With the standard deduction being higher than the former standard deduction plus the child tax credit enhancements and the lower rates, I bet the percentages will be pretty much in line with the past, although lower across the board.

The loss of the state tax deduction is going to really pop some high earners. Super high earners will get a benefit of the 2 point rate drop.
 
ChrisL68 said:
taxing is very closely related to spending. If a family is making $50,000 a year and I

A. tax them $10,000,

instead of

B. $20,000, and then turn[ing] around and giv[ing] them the extra $10,000 I tax them as social spending

then aren't you in the exact same spot?
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I reformatted a bit for clarity. Is that what you meant to say?
 
ChrisL68 said:
I am not really sure that is the case. It lowered tax revenues and most of the benefit will flow to the people who paid more taxes, but some of those rules will take a higher percentage of people that won't be paying income taxes at all.

With the standard deduction being higher than the former standard deduction plus the child tax credit enhancements and the lower rates, I bet the percentages will be pretty much in line with the past, although lower across the board.

The loss of the state tax deduction is going to really pop some high earners. Super high earners will get a benefit of the 2 point rate drop.
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It pretty much works out to a 3% drop no matter where your income falls for those making over $100k. The same people who get hurt by the lack of state tax deduction are also taking pretty strong advantage of the 9% federally they save from any income between $191k and $315k (for married filers).

The break-even point is really people with 3 kids and a $500k mortgage have about the same tax bill under either plan. If someone had 5 kids or a million dollar mortgage, they're worse off under the new plan if they didn't own a business. I suspect this is a very small subset of people.
 
Came to check for updates on separated families. Left immediately after seeing pages worth or tax discussions. Thanks guys.
 
palmab03 said:
It pretty much works out to a 3% drop no matter where your income falls for those making over $100k. The same people who get hurt by the lack of state tax deduction are also taking pretty strong advantage of the 9% federally they save from any income between $191k and $315k (for married filers).

The break-even point is really people with 3 kids and a $500k mortgage have about the same tax bill under either plan. If someone had 5 kids or a million dollar mortgage, they're worse off under the new plan if they didn't own a business. I suspect this is a very small subset of people.
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Even here, I forgot the child tax credit enhancements. It's really hard to find an income range or situation that is significantly worse under the new tax law.
 
DDA said:
Came to check for updates on separated families. Left immediately after seeing pages worth or tax discussions. Thanks guys.
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It’s amazing how quickly lawyers and accountants can change threads.
 
Since this thread is off topic, what happened to the everyday discrimination/racism thread?
 
I changed it to highlight the Wake connection in the Subway discrimination story.
 
DDA said:
Came to check for updates on separated families. Left immediately after seeing pages worth or tax discussions. Thanks guys.
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We're going to take $ away from under-resourced people with HIV/AIDS and refugees to pay for upwards of 24,000 children to be taken care of by ORR/DHHS, so there's that.
 
palmab03 said:
y'all see that Charles Oakley got arrested for trying to steal from a Casino?
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This belongs on the Everyday Racial Discrimination thread as I am 100% positive racism was involved with this somehow.
 
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