Football Prognostications...

[DCDeac]

Jim Grobe is a fantastic coach. It really is that simple.

Great class? Sure. Riley was a freshman QB. The way the coaching staff brought him through that year was nothing short of perfection. 6-0 on the road for the first time in ACC history for any team. The game plans that got the team to the most wins in school history weren't "give the ball to a bunch of NFL stars and watch them torch everyone." Curry was a sophomore, didn't lead the team in tackles, and was barely top 50 in the ACC. Good, but not some unstoppable force. 2007 was his breakout year. Abbate didn't even get drafted.

Downplaying Grobe's best years as if they were simply due to a lucky recruiting year is an absolute joke.

 

[Milhouse]

it's not downplaying it, it's stating a fact. the team that won the acc championship was loaded with nfl players (especially loaded for wake forest). that team was fucking good.

when we are once again loaded with nfl players (again, loaded for wake forest) i expect us to contend for the acc championship.

 

[DeaconSig]

Jim Grobe is a fantastic coach. It really is that simple.

Great class? Sure. Riley was a freshman QB. The way the coaching staff brought him through that year was nothing short of perfection. 6-0 on the road for the first time in ACC history for any team. The game plans that got the team to the most wins in school history weren't "give the ball to a bunch of NFL stars and watch them torch everyone." Curry was a sophomore, didn't lead the team in tackles, and was barely top 50 in the ACC. Good, but not some unstoppable force. 2007 was his breakout year. Abbate didn't even get drafted.

Downplaying Grobe's best years as if they were simply due to a lucky recruiting year is an absolute joke.

That's not what is being done. Nobody suggests that Jim Grobe isn't a good coach. Nobody is suggesting that he is anything but the best coach Wake has ever had. But those two beliefs are not mutually exclusive from thinking that Coach Grobe and his staff have not done what is necessary to put a competent team on the field in the last couple of seasons (at least the last season and a half). If the issue is talent now, instead of coaching, then the same must be true for the successful seasons.

In reality, it is a little bit of everything- coaching, talent level, luck, and whatever else you want to throw in. But when you get paid ~$2,000,000 a year to run a program, you get the praise and the criticism. The buck stops with you no matter what.

Another year like last year (getting run out of the stadium in 5 games) means that the coaching staff is not getting the job done. It doesn't mean Coach Grobe should be fired, but it does put the bulls-eye squarely on him for 2012. And as much as I hate to say it, 3 years of being non-competitive would mean he needed to go, in my opinion.

Fortunately, I expect us to be competitive over the next two years, so I don't think we get to that point.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Jim Grobe is a fantastic coach. It really is that simple.

Great class? Sure. Riley was a freshman QB. The way the coaching staff brought him through that year was nothing short of perfection. 6-0 on the road for the first time in ACC history for any team. The game plans that got the team to the most wins in school history weren't "give the ball to a bunch of NFL stars and watch them torch everyone." Curry was a sophomore, didn't lead the team in tackles, and was barely top 50 in the ACC. Good, but not some unstoppable force. 2007 was his breakout year. Abbate didn't even get drafted.

Downplaying Grobe's best years as if they were simply due to a lucky recruiting year is an absolute joke.

The problem is that Grobe hasn't been a fantastic coach since 07, he was a good coach in 08-09, and the wheels fell the fuck off last year.

 

[PhDeac]

Jim Grobe is a fantastic coach. It really is that simple.

Great class? Sure. Riley was a freshman QB. The way the coaching staff brought him through that year was nothing short of perfection. 6-0 on the road for the first time in ACC history for any team. The game plans that got the team to the most wins in school history weren't "give the ball to a bunch of NFL stars and watch them torch everyone." Curry was a sophomore, didn't lead the team in tackles, and was barely top 50 in the ACC. Good, but not some unstoppable force. 2007 was his breakout year. Abbate didn't even get drafted.

Downplaying Grobe's best years as if they were simply due to a lucky recruiting year is an absolute joke.

Only because you don't "give the ball" to defensive players. They take it.

The gameplan was to play it safe and not turn it over on offense and be content scoring with our excellent kicker and making stops with our experienced "good college players" like Abbate, Gattis, and Ghee (obviously Gattis did get drafted) and promising FRESH DEACS. We had one game with 30+ points scored by the offense (MD) and Swank was one of only 3 kickers to attempt 30+ FGs that year. We didn't close most games out with a 1st down or TD to go up 2 scores late. Those games were won by big time players on defense stepping up to make big plays.

 

[Tin Cup]

Only because you don't "give the ball" to defensive players. They take it.

The gameplan was to play it safe and not turn it over on offense and be content scoring with our excellent kicker and making stops with our experienced "good college players" like Abbate, Gattis, and Ghee (obviously Gattis did get drafted) and promising FRESH DEACS. We had one game with 30+ points scored by the offense (MD) and Swank was one of only 3 kickers to attempt 30+ FGs that year. We didn't close most games out with a 1st down or TD to go up 2 scores late. Those games were won by big time players on defense stepping up to make big plays.

If we had tried any other approach we would have gone about 3-9 that year. We played it safe for the most part, and took calculated risks offensively when the opportunity presented itself. It was a masterful performance all around.

 

[PhDeac]

If we had tried any other approach we would have gone about 3-9 that year. We played it safe for the most part, and took calculated risks offensively when the opportunity presented itself. It was a masterful performance all around.

I don't disagree. And we've tried that approach ever since and it got us to 3-9 this year because we didn't have the talent to do it.

That's been my point. Much like Odom had Duncan and Prosser had Paul, Grobe had the perfect talent for his system and hasn't shown the ability to adapt to his players since. 2009 was the perfect example. The offense was stronger than the defense, but it wasn't allowed the chance to put enough points on the board to win after the 2nd half of the MD game. Along with that, the weak 2009 defense was allowed to get even worse in 2010. The 2nd half of the season was dismissed as a fluke and things just got worse.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I don't disagree. And we've tried that approach ever since and it got us to 3-9 this year because we didn't have the talent to do it.

That's been my point. Much like Odom had Duncan and Prosser had Paul, Grobe had the perfect talent for his system and hasn't shown the ability to adapt to his players since. 2009 was the perfect example. The offense was stronger than the defense, but it wasn't allowed the chance to put enough points on the board to win after the 2nd half of the MD game. Not only that but that weak 2009 defense was allowed to get even worse in 2010.

To give him credit, Grobe did switch to the spread for Riley in 09, and it was so terrible that we stopped after the first half against Baylor.

 

[Tin Cup]

Simply put, we are not nor we will ever be a program that can rely on young guys (true fresh, rFr, So) to be the key to the season. And last year we started a true fresh QB, true freshman CBs, a rFr RB (who while he showed plenty of flashes, lacked consistency and made some rookie mistakes).

More than anything, there were mistakes made in recruiting that landed us in the position of having to play talented, but not prepared, young guys at key positions. With a year under their belts I expect them to be a lot better, though it may or may not show up in the W/L column.

If we can go back to showing the things I mentioned earlier, I'll be happy with this season, regardless of the outcome.

 

[PhDeac]

Who made mistakes in recruiting, Tin Cup?

You keep making my points. Either get the most out of the talent you have or recruit and develop the talent necessary to win. Our staff has done neither.

 

[Hondo]

Horse Shit. / motherfuckers / "Fuck Yourselves in the ASS"

I can't tell you how impressive this language is....bet your mom and dad would be proud....lotta class here....chest-pounding for sure....look at me, look at me, oh please look at me....desparate for attention....huge inferiority complex here....

:internets:

 

[Tin Cup]

Who made mistakes in recruiting, Tin Cup?

The coaches, who have admitted as much. I really dont understand what point you are trying to drive home with all of this.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Horse Shit. / motherfuckers / "Fuck Yourselves in the ASS"

I can't tell you how impressive this language is....bet your mom and dad would be proud....lotta class here....chest-pounding for sure....look at me, look at me, oh please look at me....desparate for attention....huge inferiority complex here....

:internets:

I wish Lectro could quit it with his "schtick" and talk about football like a normal person, because all of his good information gets buried underneath his craziness.

 

[PhDeac]

The coaches, who have admitted as much. I really dont understand what point you are trying to drive home with all of this.

The coaches aren't getting the job done and need to get it in gear or they need to be ushered out instead of floundering indefinitely.

Some how you seem to agree with the basics, but not the big picture.

 

[Tin Cup]

The coaches aren't getting the job done and need to get it in gear or they need to be ushered out instead of floundering indefinitely.

Some how you seem to agree with the basics, but not the big picture.

Trust me, they are fully aware of that.

If you were an AD you would be running a multimillion dollar deficit, because you would be paying 5 head coaches salaries every year.

 

[DCDeac]

That's not what is being done. Nobody suggests that Jim Grobe isn't a good coach. Nobody is suggesting that he is anything but the best coach Wake has ever had. But those two beliefs are not mutually exclusive from thinking that Coach Grobe and his staff have not done what is necessary to put a competent team on the field in the last couple of seasons (at least the last season and a half). If the issue is talent now, instead of coaching, then the same must be true for the successful seasons.

In reality, it is a little bit of everything- coaching, talent level, luck, and whatever else you want to throw in. But when you get paid ~$2,000,000 a year to run a program, you get the praise and the criticism. The buck stops with you no matter what.

Another year like last year (getting run out of the stadium in 5 games) means that the coaching staff is not getting the job done. It doesn't mean Coach Grobe should be fired, but it does put the bulls-eye squarely on him for 2012. And as much as I hate to say it, 3 years of being non-competitive would mean he needed to go, in my opinion.

Fortunately, I expect us to be competitive over the next two years, so I don't think we get to that point.

Uh, what do you think "it was a lucky class, it's that simple" means?

So many people talking out of both sides of their mouths here. 5 wins is the floor but you're not arguing for the coach to be fired. Same record last year as we had two years before our ACC championship and greatest run in Wake football history but Grobe is on the "hot seat." It's all just bullshit.

If we don't hit our "floor" of 5 wins next year and we fired Grobe, we'd be the laughing stock of the country for a few days, then fade into obscurity as 5 wins became our new ceiling.

 

[PhDeac]

Trust me, they are fully aware of that.

If you were an AD you would be running a multimillion dollar deficit, because you would be paying 5 head coaches salaries every year.

Aware of what? They're in no danger whatsoever of being let go regardless of the performance on the field as long as Wellman is the AD.

 

[Tin Cup]

Aware of what? They're in no danger whatsoever of being let go regardless of the performance on the field as long as Wellman is the AD.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Uh, what do you think "it was a lucky class, it's that simple" means?

So many people talking out of both sides of their mouths here. 5 wins is the floor but you're not arguing for the coach to be fired. Same record last year as we had two years before our ACC championship and greatest run in Wake football history but Grobe is on the "hot seat." It's all just bullshit.

If we don't hit our "floor" of 5 wins next year and we fired Grobe, we'd be the laughing stock of the country for a few days, then fade into obscurity as 5 wins became our new ceiling.

So you want to wait around with your thumb up your ass hoping for lighting in a bottle again? How many 3 win seasons has Wake had that DIDN'T precede ACC Championships? Grobe is getting old, he needs to build a foundation that a proceeding coach can start from. No one here is arguing that Grobe is on the hot seat now, but 3 wins is a shitty season no matter how you spin it.

 

[PhDeac]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I hope not. But judging from these boards, there would be a lot of angry fans if Grobe is on the hot seat as you suggest.