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Grade our basketball players, offensively and defensively

slickdeac said:
I watch almost every game as a big fan but admittedly do not have the trained eye for intangibles and even defensive ability (outside of obvious good or bad). Can someone who knows more explain why Rondale is a good defender or valuable given offensive limitations? Personally, I couldn't believe Watson was still in at the end of the game (because of past biases on here), but it seems everyone here has made a huge switch on him in one single game....
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Moves his feet well, stays in front of his guy, rotates well, disrupts passing lanes, eliminates penetration.
 
The kids read the boards! Townie is a bad fan!!!!
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Moves his feet well, stays in front of his guy, rotates well, disrupts passing lanes, eliminates penetration.
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Has taken 1 or 2 charges too.
Agree that this is as subjective as it gets and everyone has their own grading scale and value different aspects of play more than others. For example, someone grading down offense due to bad FT% is stupid IMO if the production is there. Shaq was an A+ offensive player despite leaving a lot of points at the line. At the same time, Steve Nash and Ray Allen's almost automatic FT% made them more valuable, especially in closing out games. You can't look at stats in a vacuum.
After reflecting on our players, the biggest thing I've noticed is that Hudson needs to play better on both ends. He should be really completing us but instead is playing himself into the 8th man role.
 
we don't need anyone to leave for the 2016 recruits. we need someone to leave for each 2017 recruit that gets a schollie.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
we don't need anyone to leave for the 2016 recruits. we need someone to leave for each 2017 recruit that gets a schollie.
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Yes we do with TVH schollie that leaves 14 scholarship players after the three seniors are gone plus the 2016 recruits we are only allowed 13
 
deacman3000 said:
Yes we do with TVH schollie that leaves 14 scholarship players after the three seniors are gone plus the 2016 recruits we are only allowed 13
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TVH was only given a scholarship because Madison Jones lost his. He will return to walk-on status like he was for his freshman and sophomore years.
 
deacman3000 said:
I highly doubt Manning would do that but I may be wrong
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what? why would manning not do that? TVH was not a recruited player. the only reason he was given a scholarship was because it would have gone unused.
 
Regardless of TVH scholly status, speculating on who will leave hypothetically at this point in the season is not helpful or cool IMO. For the last 2 years we would have chased Rondale Watson out with a pitchfork. Now he's basically a rotation player who got trashed for no good reason by Wake fans. What's the point?
 
TownieDeac said:
DC and others have danced around it but don't seem to be willing to make actual arguments. I'd love to see the KenPoms.
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That's such crap.

Townie posted Dinos cost us the game all by himself, then backed off slightly but still ripped Dinos as some kind of huge problem last night. All I said was that he is a defensive liability but is doing a lot of other good things this team sorely needs. I pointed out that his backup, Collins, had 1 rebound in 10 minutes of play. Dinos had a double double. He got torched 4 times in the first 7 minutes including a highlight dunk. He also gave up zero points in the 2nd half to that same player and combined with Devin to absolutely lock down the Louisville front court.

The facts of that game are hard to cope with I guess. The argument shifted to say Dinos was switching to other guys and they were the ones scoring, which is simply inaccurate. I pointed out the starters at the 2 and 3 spots for Louisville pulled down 12 rebounds and ours had 3. That Codi, Wilbekin, and Hudson all combined didn't score 10 points in a game where we held Louisville to their lowest point total of the season. Yet the big problem was Dinos somehow.

There's not a single post anywhere that anyone has said he isn't a poor defender. The most positive thing said (not even by me originally) is that he is showing improvement. Which he is. Last year he was terrible, this year sometimes terrible but often decent. Last year he had one double digit rebounding game all season. He already has 3 this year.

Apparently the above is "not an actual argument" but saying "Codi gets a D" is. The fact remains that we have 3 guys who have been dominant for lengthy periods during big games like Dinos was in the first half of the Indiana game. Crawford and Devin are the other two. The 2 and 3 spots are killing us right now yet we've won some solid games in spite of that.

I honestly have no idea how the above is even the least bit provocative or so inflammatory that Townie feels the need to start threads and chase me on other threads ordering me to come post grades after our 1st ACC game. Just like pointing out that Rondale is improved shouldn't even be a discussion. And yet it is somehow.

Done with this argument. We've outperformed expectations this season and we've actually been fun to watch. If you went back and polled the boards to predict our record to this point and added that Codi would have 21 points all year so far and Hudson wouldn't start and would barely be over 20% from deep, imagine how dire all our predictions would have been. And yet we're talking NCAA bubble. And trolling our players and calling out posters for arguing that are "a liability but improving." Yawn.

On a side note this Kansas/Oklahoma game is crazy. And it's responsible for the length of this post.
 
This is an awesome KU/OK game. Because Watson is not hitting his shots, I understand why people are saying he is limited offensively. However, 5 assists is not limited offensively. He looked good on the offensive rotations and if his shots start falling he might get some serious playing time as the season progresses.
 
I wouldn't hold out hope on Watson becoming a scorer. His shot looks busted and he doesn't seem to have much ability to get off a shot. We could really use a guy who can help get the ball to our 3 scoring options and who can hustle for those long rebounds.
 
slickdeac said:
I watch almost every game as a big fan but admittedly do not have the trained eye for intangibles and even defensive ability (outside of obvious good or bad). Can someone who knows more explain why Rondale is a good defender or valuable given offensive limitations? Personally, I couldn't believe Watson was still in at the end of the game (because of past biases on here), but it seems everyone here has made a huge switch on him in one single game....
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Watson is a decent shooter. Much better than CMM. He is athletic and doesn't turn it over much. His defense is very good right now.
 
Watson is not a better shooter than CMM. He doesn't appear to be particularly good on offense at all and is just asked to play within himself on that end. If Watson couldn't be trusted to dribble the ball up with a little pressure and play solid defense he wouldn't be on the floor at all. He's not there to take many shots and he's not there to provide an offensive threat as far as I can discern.
 
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