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Honest Evaluation

WhatUTalkinBout Willis said:
Well one thing is sure, DV7 has never played, coached, or really been intimate with the inner workings of a college basketball team at a high level (maybe no sport?). I'm also going to go out on a limb and say DV7 has never been a leader of a large organization during difficult times. So basically, DV7 is all opinion and no intelligence on the Bzz IN/Out subject.

I'm 100% Bzz in. And it's directly because of his leadership.

Can I be in the regime too? ;)
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I feel you may be a divisive figure in my regime in our efforts to take over the world. So, no.
 
Lectro said:
I'm Buzz-in bro...didn't ya know?
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Oh no, I'm well aware that your ability to evaluate college bball coaches is right up their with your evaluation of Okoro.

I'm just chuckling at the idea of you applauding anyone's "realistic" assessment of anything, seeing as you're usually the one to hurl insults and get all butt hurt whenever anyone bothers to be realistic about anything football related.
 
pourdeac said:
We had quite a bit of ACC talent. They were run off or left for various reasons, probably including his personality. Bzz also has a year of recruiting under his belt and none are ACC worthy.

So....he gets a pass or something???

What I saw in the Duke game was better on floor leadership, not necessarily better coaching. That's certainly a good sign. What really troubled me was all the really bad lazy passes many leading to TOs...and that's coaching.
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This is a load of crap. One part of the on-court performance is credited to the players but another is the coach's fault? I get the unbridled hatred of [Redacted] but please at least be reasonable. A lazy pass is the coach's fault? Really?
 
pourdeac said:
We had quite a bit of ACC talent. They were run off or left for various reasons, probably including his personality. Bzz also has a year of recruiting under his belt and none are ACC worthy.

So....he gets a pass or something???

What I saw in the Duke game was better on floor leadership, not necessarily better coaching. That's certainly a good sign. What really troubled me was all the really bad lazy passes many leading to TOs...and that's coaching.
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Yes he gets a pass. Do you seriously think it was his personality that caused the players to leave? As far as all of the ACC talent that you alluded to, imho we are better long term without the attitudes and behavior they exhibited. I'm not at all sure just how much talent there was either.

His first year of recruiting are this year's freshmen. It could well be argued that since the recruiting process begins early, much of the top talent was already committed. We can all agree to disagree how much credit or blame he deserves for this class. His 2nd. year of recruiting are seniors in high school. No one knows for sure, but I'm willing to bet they will turn out to be one of the best classes we have ever recruited.

As I've said before, I can understand why some didn't like the hire. What I still can't understand is the vitrol and over the top personal attacks that came with it. I've never seen any 1st. or 2nd. year coach get as much crap. The general rule of thumb is most coaches get at least 3 or 4 years to put their program together. As bad as our program was, he should get at least that.

If after next year we don't start seeing pretty dramatic results, I will then agree with the Buzz outers, but it will be based on results with someone having a fair amount of time to produce those results. I wish we could go the rest of the year with no posts from either side of the Buzz issue. We are getting no new players on a team that has 2 or maybe 3 Acc caliber players. It is what it is for the rest of the year, so let's get behind the team and take pleasure in whatever positive results we get.
 
Deac65 said:
Yes he gets a pass. Do you seriously think it was his personality that caused the players to leave? As far as all of the ACC talent that you alluded to, imho we are better long term without the attitudes and behavior they exhibited. I'm not at all sure just how much talent there was either.

His first year of recruiting are this year's freshmen. It could well be argued that since the recruiting process begins early, much of the top talent was already committed. We can all agree to disagree how much credit or blame he deserves for this class. His 2nd. year of recruiting are seniors in high school. No one knows for sure, but I'm willing to bet they will turn out to be one of the best classes we have ever recruited.

As I've said before, I can understand why some didn't like the hire. What I still can't understand is the vitrol and over the top personal attacks that came with it. I've never seen any 1st. or 2nd. year coach get as much crap. The general rule of thumb is most coaches get at least 3 or 4 years to put their program together. As bad as our program was, he should get at least that.

If after next year we don't start seeing pretty dramatic results, I will then agree with the Buzz outers, but it will be based on results with someone having a fair amount of time to produce those results. I wish we could go the rest of the year with no posts from either side of the Buzz issue. We are getting no new players on a team that has 2 or maybe 3 Acc caliber players. It is what it is for the rest of the year, so let's get behind the team and take pleasure in whatever positive results we get.
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Sorry, not gonna happen. BuzzOut - EVERY DAY - till he's gone.
 
Deac65 said:
Yes he gets a pass. Do you seriously think it was his personality that caused the players to leave? As far as all of the ACC talent that you alluded to, imho we are better long term without the attitudes and behavior they exhibited. I'm not at all sure just how much talent there was either.

His first year of recruiting are this year's freshmen. It could well be argued that since the recruiting process begins early, much of the top talent was already committed. We can all agree to disagree how much credit or blame he deserves for this class. His 2nd. year of recruiting are seniors in high school. No one knows for sure, but I'm willing to bet they will turn out to be one of the best classes we have ever recruited.

As I've said before, I can understand why some didn't like the hire. What I still can't understand is the vitrol and over the top personal attacks that came with it. I've never seen any 1st. or 2nd. year coach get as much crap. The general rule of thumb is most coaches get at least 3 or 4 years to put their program together. As bad as our program was, he should get at least that.

If after next year we don't start seeing pretty dramatic results, I will then agree with the Buzz outers, but it will be based on results with someone having a fair amount of time to produce those results. I wish we could go the rest of the year with no posts from either side of the Buzz issue. We are getting no new players on a team that has 2 or maybe 3 Acc caliber players. It is what it is for the rest of the year, so let's get behind the team and take pleasure in whatever positive results we get.
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Good post, although I am not sure it is worth arguing with the Buzz Outers. It is negative no matter what. I think the Taliban may be more open minded.

Great to see things moving in the right direction. Great kids on the team. Great class coming in. Team is playing well. Heck, even Ty seems to be finally starting to play to his potential. Nice win today. Go Deacs!
 
pourdeac said:
We had quite a bit of ACC talent. They were run off or left for various reasons, probably including his personality. Bzz also has a year of recruiting under his belt and none are ACC worthy.

So....he gets a pass or something???

What I saw in the Duke game was better on floor leadership, not necessarily better coaching. That's certainly a good sign. What really troubled me was all the really bad lazy passes many leading to TOs...and that's coaching.
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The poeple who left were not "run off" by [Redacted]. He tried to keep each of them.

He bent over backwards to help keep Melvin here. The coach gave him more opportunities than most would have.

Ari's choices ld to him leaving. He should have bene the perfect fit for [Redacted]'s offense, but Ari chose not want to participate.

The entire staff tried to get him back on track.

JT's situation was sad. He had demons that were tough to beat.
 
So true RJ. And look at Ty. He's been given plenty of chances and, finally, a little tough love seems to really be paying off for him (and the team).
 
Are you going to start always posting in red RJ? Because that'd be even more annoying then your incessant, inappropriate use of "...".
 
TBR said:
Are you going to start always posting in red RJ? Because that'd be even more annoying then your incessant, inappropriate use of "...".
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I thought I was in the quote box. That's usually when I use different colors to be able to be seen.
 
RacerDeac said:
Oh no, I'm well aware that your ability to evaluate college bball coaches is right up their with your evaluation of Okoro.

I'm just chuckling at the idea of you applauding anyone's "realistic" assessment of anything, seeing as you're usually the one to hurl insults and get all butt hurt whenever anyone bothers to be realistic about anything football related.
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I know that gives you a "Chris Matthews tingle" up your leg but the fact remains that Okoro was rated a top 5 CB in his class by Mel Kiper. I am constantly putting up any positive articles about any Deacon and so was very happy to that such a prominent NFL draft expert had that to say about Kenny. Now granted, this was before his sophomore season.

Anyway fuck it...I'll vouch for him just as I DID for JOSH BUSH WHEN NOBODY ELSE WOULD -- remember? :) --- So yea, fk it, I say 2012 is the year when Kenny Okoro breaks back out as a prospect and learns how to finally keep his fuggin' trailing arm from draping the receiver.

I'm With You KENNY! :)
 
Honestly, I don't think Bzz is a great coach. Could he be good? Maybe, but I'm pissed he was given a shot at an (arguably) top 4 job in (arguably) the best conference in America. You earn those jobs, you aren't given a shot in the dark with that resume.

Honestly, we are the least talented team in the ACC outside of that shitshow in Boston. I know high school rankings aren't the only indicator of collegiate success and they don't exactly matter once kids step on campus, but it's the only ranking we have. Based on them, we have three players who were given a 4* ranking or higher. Three. BC is below us and we whooped them. Everyone else has better "talent" than we do.

I'm not BzzIn at all, but I can see a lot of reasons why we aren't getting rid of him anytime soon, especially if he gets 4+ conference wins out of this team. A sad realization, but it's true.
 
Deac65 said:
His first year of recruiting are this year's freshmen. It could well be argued that since the recruiting process begins early, much of the top talent was already committed. We can all agree to disagree how much credit or blame he deserves for this class. His 2nd. year of recruiting are seniors in high school. No one knows for sure, but I'm willing to bet they will turn out to be one of the best classes we have ever recruited.
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As to the bold, really?
 
wake20 said:
Honestly, I don't think Bzz is a great coach. Could he be good? Maybe, but I'm pissed he was given a shot at an (arguably) top 4 job in (arguably) the best conference in America. You earn those jobs, you aren't given a shot in the dark with that resume.
Honestly, we are the least talented team in the ACC outside of that shitshow in Boston. I know high school rankings aren't the only indicator of collegiate success and they don't exactly matter once kids step on campus, but it's the only ranking we have. Based on them, we have three players who were given a 4* ranking or higher. Three. BC is below us and we whooped them. Everyone else has better "talent" than we do.

I'm not BzzIn at all, but I can see a lot of reasons why we aren't getting rid of him anytime soon, especially if he gets 4+ conference wins out of this team. A sad realization, but it's true.
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I think the bolded portion above is the main reason so many posters are Bzzout - and so violently so. They looked at the man's resume and were underwhelmed and have been determined to hate him and drive him away ever since.

I can't blame them for being underwhelmed and surprised at the hire - I was too. I would just point out that we are two years removed from the hire and it is time to stop focusing on whether he should have been given the job and start paying attention to how he is doing at the job. Your conclusion may be the same, but at least it will be based on results and not pre-judgment.
 
scooter84 said:
I think the bolded portion above is the main reason so many posters are Bzzout - and so violently so. They looked at the man's resume and were underwhelmed and have been determined to hate him and drive him away ever since.

I can't blame them for being underwhelmed and surprised at the hire - I was too. I would just point out that we are two years removed from the hire and it is time to stop focusing on whether he should have been given the job and start paying attention to how he is doing at the job. Your conclusion may be the same, but at least it will be based on results and not pre-judgment.
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Most of the Bzzouters I know were Bzz Wait and See until they actually did see him perform on the job. The results since the hire are what have caused them to become so violently Bzzout.

I looked at his resume and thought "wow, I'm going to trust Wellman knows what he is doing". A few games into the season last year it was "wow, blew this and Bzz is everything his resume would indicate." This year it's "please get this guy gone before he can cause any more ruin to our program."
 
RacerDeac said:
Most of the Bzzouters I know were Bzz Wait and See until they actually did see him perform on the job. The results since the hire are what have caused them to become so violently Bzzout.

I looked at his resume and thought "wow, I'm going to trust Wellman knows what he is doing". A few games into the season last year it was "wow, blew this and Bzz is everything his resume would indicate." This year it's "please get this guy gone before he can cause any more ruin to our program."
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With that type of "patience" I'm surprised you waste time with charcoal grilling.

Most of us out here think the Bzzout crowd cranked the Blue Rhino way too fuggin soon on this guy... :)
 
Lectro said:
With that type of "patience" I'm surprised you waste time with charcoal grilling.
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If he was a young coach without an established resume or very successful at other places, more patience would be warranted. No need for patience when he has a pattern over a long career that continues in his first 1.5 seasons at Wake.
 
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