No way that is possible. May when [Redacted] was hired, but surely not when he was fired. Wellman was turned down several times before settling for Manning. Do you think if he could have poached the coach at a program like the current Xavier, he wouldn't have?
I am so sick of this shit I can’t stand it!
- Thread starter 82deacman
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
No way that is possible. May when [Redacted] was hired, but surely not when he was fired. Wellman was turned down several times before settling for Manning. Do you think if he could have poached the coach at a program like the current Xavier, he wouldn't have?
PhDeac
PM a mod to cement your internet status forever
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Messages
- 156,215
- Reaction score
- 23,208
Great post. We missed our chance to hire the great Wake Forest coach after Skip died. That was the last time Wake had an opening and Wake could have a shot with a good mid major coach with the huge advantage of being an ACC program.
Yes, I do. But I doubt Wellman even tried with Mack...too connected to Gaudio.
Wrangor
Go Deacs
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 12,413
- Reaction score
- 1,376
For a lawyer you would think DR would get his facts straight. I think with next year's class we will become an NCAA tournament team, if we follow up 18 with a top 15 class again, then there is no reason we shouldn't make the tournament and advance the following. Of course since we don't know what the 19 class holds, this is all hypothetical. I do think based on the current construct of our team, and the class that we have coming in next year we will make the tournament, and I am willing to stand by that prediction. I don't think it is a shoe-in by any means, but even in Manning doesn't improve a whole lot (which I hope he does) we have the pieces to be pretty good next year almost on accident. That is the advantage of being a good recruiter.
I also agree that a poor performance this year could very easily impact our 19 class, and we don't need that to happen.
I was/am as mad as anyone about the Buzz hiring and wasn't terribly enthused about the Manning hire. But I'm conflicted in my feelings towards RW. We are having a run of success in all sports not named basketball that I think is unparalleled in Wake's history. Even Women's hoops is competitive. The hires of Muuss, Clawson, and Walter have been excellent. Not sure why he seems to struggle so much to find a good basketball coach. Must be the arena. Though somehow baseball made it work with a hugely oversized stadium
Agree. (Though I would not label women's hoops "competitive" just yet.) It's getting harder to criticize RW in light of the success football, soccer, and some other sports are having. I think the disappointment stems from knowing that there was a real window there for men's basketball to enter the realm of elite programs, and we blew it. Also, his judgment in hiring Bz was unforgivably bad.
I will add that I have a lot of gripes with RW about the "small stuff" - sports marketing, ticket office, merchandising, etc. Those things matter and I don't think they get nearly as much attention (or expertise) as they ought to. I know we're not Alabama and money/resources are issues, but we should not (1) run out of water at FB games in September; (2) have non-working bball goals at midnight madness; or (3) have a Web site that is routinely out of date and uninformative.
Ayo
What up, Bird?
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2012
- Messages
- 22,562
- Reaction score
- 1,110
We'll likely be at least decent next year. Maybe even good enough to get to the tourney. But then we lose Crawford, Woods, and Doral at minimum, maybe even more. I just don't have much faith right now that we'll be at the same level the following year with an in-game coach as poor as Manning. I have no faith we'll be better in 2019-20 than in 2018-19. And that's kinda my issue with Manning. Just not sure the ceiling is any higher than fringe NCAAT team every other year that gets bounced in the first round.
Last edited:
DeacsATS
Sam "Ace" Rothstein
Agree with most of that, but the obvious caveat is that it is tough to judge the ceiling when Manning's best class (to date) hasn't even set foot on campus yet.
As an aside, one of the weirdest things for me this season is that Manning has (at least in some part) turned Doral into a much better player than I thought he'd be, yet we are still terrible. I am not sure if that says good or bad things about Manning as a coach.
deaconson
Exhausted
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2011
- Messages
- 24,421
- Reaction score
- 8,008
I was/am as mad as anyone about the Buzz hiring and wasn't terribly enthused about the Manning hire. But I'm conflicted in my feelings towards RW. We are having a run of success in all sports not named basketball that I think is unparalleled in Wake's history. Even Women's hoops is competitive. The hires of Muuss, Clawson, and Walter have been excellent. Not sure why he seems to struggle so much to find a good basketball coach. Must be the arena. Though somehow baseball made it work with a hugely oversized stadium
honest question regarding hires other than mens bb and football. how much was he involved with other hires? does he delegate early leg work? interview final candidates chose by assistants? wasn't it reported clawson was largely recruited to come to wake by ... blanking on his name...? I don't have any real sauces but i get the impression that ronnie wants to look important and the non revenue sports don't give him enough of an ego boost. maybe i'm wrong.
Wrangor
Go Deacs
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 12,413
- Reaction score
- 1,376
It hasn't been next year for anyone with a brain. Certainly not this basketball fan. You can record search any posts by me regarding [Redacted]. The closest I ever got to optimism was...'I don't have a lot of confidence, but I am going to try and stay positive and hope for the best'.
Danny inherited a complete mess ([Redacted] did not). It was a clear rebuild for Danny. I did not expect us to make the tournament last year, but Collins advanced development snuck us in the tournament. Turns out he was really good, and this year our team didn't know how to play without him for a bit. We have some building blocks in place for the first time in a long time. Even last year we were putting it together with a bunch of sub par recruits. Recruiting takes time to build your core level of talent. We are just now getting to the point where we ought to be. Clearly Manning has not shown the coaching chops to take over a team of subpar talent and will them to win games (and there are amazing coaches who can do this). But he has shown the ability and the ethic to succeed in a big way on the recruiting trail. That is also a valuable skill to have and the doom and gloom crowd would be best to not underestimate it, because when we make the tournament next year some of ya'll might look pretty silly. On the same notion, Manning could be as bad as some of ya'll claim, and I might look pretty foolish. I certainly am not immune to projecting a basketball program incorrectly, but I think I am right with Manning.
Wrangor
Go Deacs
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 12,413
- Reaction score
- 1,376
All three of those players are incredibly replaceable because all three have severe limitations on the court. Crawford is limited by his decision making (he is just not a smart player), Woods is probably the least athletic SG in the ACC (might be better than Wilbekin, but its close), and Moore has all sorts of shooting, fouling, mobility limitations. I think people are going to be surprised to find out what this team looks like when we have recruits playing that are complete players. Guys like Brown, Sarr, Mucius, and Hoard can play on both sides of the ball, and can shoot, pass, defend, rebound, and handle the ball for their respective positions. They are also well above average height/length for their position. I know this is supposed to be a negative thread, but I just can't help but get excited about the idea of a Wright Jr, Brown, Mucius, Hoard, Sarr lineup in 2 years. Its coming...hang with the staff for another year and you will be glad you did. The incoming talent is for real. If Manning still can't get it done, we will get a REALLY good coach because someone will take the opportunity to look really smart with what we have on our roster.
Bluegrass Deac
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2011
- Messages
- 995
- Reaction score
- 108
I've heard Louisville is going to make a run for Mack. His wife is from there and her family is still there.
donaldross
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 23, 2011
- Messages
- 2,507
- Reaction score
- 117
X would then hire Pat. Because they are smart. Unlike us.
Colonel Angus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2011
- Messages
- 3,759
- Reaction score
- 592
Bluegrass Deac
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2011
- Messages
- 995
- Reaction score
- 108
They also have a coaching pipeline much like Butler does. We don't.
Ayo
What up, Bird?
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2012
- Messages
- 22,562
- Reaction score
- 1,110
Then we're not gonna be very good and we'll get excuses from the usual suspects.
And Chaundee and Sarr certainly haven't shown yet they can play on both sides of the ball with any level of consistency.
All that really matters is winning. If the record is 17-10, it does not really matter if it is due to great recruits under performing or mediocre recruits playing at the top of their game.
That said, it certainly feels better and maybe looks better to have the latter. Having the sum of the parts be less than the whole does not sit well with me. A Greg Marshall who seems to recruit at a lower level but whose teams play above that level seems like more of the image that I have traditionally had for Wake. Maybe not the best players, but players playing smarter and with a bit more effort and a chip on their shoulder.
Maybe this is why the past 2 coaches teams have set so poorly with me.
That said, it certainly feels better and maybe looks better to have the latter. Having the sum of the parts be less than the whole does not sit well with me. A Greg Marshall who seems to recruit at a lower level but whose teams play above that level seems like more of the image that I have traditionally had for Wake. Maybe not the best players, but players playing smarter and with a bit more effort and a chip on their shoulder.
Maybe this is why the past 2 coaches teams have set so poorly with me.
Wrangor
Go Deacs
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 12,413
- Reaction score
- 1,376
That hurts, but still think we probably make the tournament. I don't see any reason why Woods would leave. Rumors have circulated about Crawford leaving, but it would still be surprising to see him leave for his senior year and go play in a secondary European league. But perhaps that happens. That could happen to any program. If guys like Joel Berry are staying for their senior year, and we have guys like Woods leaving after their junior year then that is just bad luck.
I mean if you take Joel Berry and Theo Pinson off a team like UNC, they are lower middle of the pack in the ACC. Having your seniors play matters. Not sure how could take the 2 best seniors off any school and it not make a massive impact, and also not sure how you can prepare for that as a coach without being Duke, Arizona, or Kentucky.
Last edited:
CharlotteDeac1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2015
- Messages
- 3,586
- Reaction score
- 201
Fantastic last two posts Wrangor. Completely on board with this train of thought. Manning is recruiting a roster that fits what he wants to do - play defense and play fast as a result of defense (I know, sounds weird for a Manning team, right?). I think Wright is going to be a lot better than recruiting analysts think, also. He just played in AAU that has less publicity.
Also, you’re right on point with the “next wake coach will be great if Manning doesn’t work out.” Likely any coach in the country would want to coach our roster with the length and athleticism we’ll have by the time they’d come. I think Manning will work out, but this is a good point (if they can keep the players we have from transferring if Manning is let go).