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I'd Rather See New Coordinators

We've seen enough of Tyler Cameron and the true frosh to know the answer isn't there either. Imagine the spin if Cameron hadn't played and been a dud.
 
PhDeac said:
We've seen enough of Tyler Cameron and the true frosh to know the answer isn't there either. Imagine the spin if Cameron hadn't played and been a dud.
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I don't think that is a fair assessment. He was thrown into a fiasco against the #2 team in the nation down 35 (?). He wasn't allowed to run the ball. That is one of his strengths, apparently. He showed a stronger arm than I expected. I think he should start against Duke.
 
mebanedeac said:
I don't think that is a fair assessment. He was thrown into a fiasco against the #2 team in the nation down 35 (?). He wasn't allowed to run the ball. That is one of his strengths, apparently. He showed a stronger arm than I expected. I think he should start against Duke.
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Agree that he should get significant snaps against Duke.
 
Guys, I have lost faith. I can only imagine a red shirting freshman from '09 sitting through a season ending on a 1-5 streak and saying "this isn't going to happen to me". And in '10 with a 1-9 finish saying "this won't happen to me". In '11, going 1-5 to end the year, "I can't let this happen to me". Then in '12, ending the year 0-3 saying "why is this happening to me". Now after getting thumped 72-3 in the last 2 games with no hope of going to a bowl game saying "what did I ever see in this place"?
 
TBR said:
Dabo pumps players up and recruits like a mad man. What does Grobe do in this scenario?
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Dabo also coaches at a school with 40 times the alumni Wake has, 40 times the profit, at a school that's won a national championship, with a much easier academic standards. Comparing Dabo and Grobe is apples and oranges, especially when it comes to recruiting.

comparing Grobe to Franklin, Briles, or Cutcliffe is more accurate. And to date, none of them have won an conference championship. Though Baylor should this year.
 
Can we all just please stop with the academics...its been the go to Wake Forest excuse for 50 years. Others out there make it a positive and if we're going to choose to be in the ACC then we need to find a way to compete with the schools we're playing. Grobe did win a conference championship so he's the one that raised the bar.
 
SDeacz said:
Dabo also coaches at a school with 40 times the alumni Wake has, 40 times the profit, at a school that's won a national championship, with a much easier academic standards. Comparing Dabo and Grobe is apples and oranges, especially when it comes to recruiting.

comparing Grobe to Franklin, Briles, or Cutcliffe is more accurate. And to date, none of them have won an conference championship. Though Baylor should this year.
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What has that got to do with comparing Grobe's near lifeless demeanor with Dabo's energy and passion???? Our program needs energy and passion now and we don't have it.
 
SDeacz said:
Dabo also coaches at a school with 40 times the alumni Wake has, 40 times the profit, at a school that's won a national championship, with a much easier academic standards. Comparing Dabo and Grobe is apples and oranges, especially when it comes to recruiting.

comparing Grobe to Franklin, Briles, or Cutcliffe is more accurate. And to date, none of them have won an conference championship. Though Baylor should this year.
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Briles won a conference championship (C-USA) in 2006 with Houston.
 
Would you give Briles, Franklin or Cutcliffe a "Coach for Life" contract? Did it work for us?
 
DEACS76 said:
Would you give Briles, Franklin or Cutcliffe a "Coach for Life" contract? Did it work for us?
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I would never give a coach a "Coach for Life" contract. I never understood the argument that Paterno and Bowden had earned the right to leave when they wanted to leave. When a coach becomes consistently ineffective and even a liability to the program, then they should either have the sense to step down or be removed. The coach should never become bigger than the program itself and the program should never become more important than the values and ethics of the school, both of which happened at Penn State.
 
Here here, liveanddie. Here here.
 
By all reports we're going to be terrible next year.

If Wellman were to follow the Dino protocol, multiple years of underachieving plus an obvious down year on the way would say fire Grobe before the terrible season even happens. Then again, that didn't work out too well.

Not sure how the program could be any less attractive to prospective coaches as it will be coming off this season. At least if you keep Grobe and replace the other coaches you don't run the risk of Wellman Bzdeliking the football program. Grobe still commands a lot of respect across the league.
 
If we are terrible next year and lose some solid players in the secondary we will be less attractive. The fact our 2014 class is the lowest rated class in the BCS.

Of course, if you think Grobe was a good hire, the attractiveness issue shouldn't be a problem. We got him with a much less attractive situation in Dec 2000.
 
PhDeac said:
If we are terrible next year and lose some solid players in the secondary we will be less attractive. The fact our 2014 class is the lowest rated class in the BCS.

Of course, if you think Grobe was a good hire, the attractiveness issue shouldn't be a problem. We got him with a much less attractive situation in Dec 2000.
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I think even with the current downturn, our program is a much more attractive job than when Grobe took it. 1) Our facilities are much better. BB&T is night and day better than it was when Grobe came and the we're building the new athletic center, and 2) We've certainly shown we're willing to pay a coach good money if they are successful.
 
Exactly. Wake was attractive enough to get a solid MAC coach in 2000. We are attractive enough to get a strong candidate now.
 
PhDeac said:
If we are terrible next year and lose some solid players in the secondary we will be less attractive. The fact our 2014 class is the lowest rated class in the BCS.

Of course, if you think Grobe was a good hire, the attractiveness issue shouldn't be a problem. We got him with a much less attractive situation in Dec 2000.
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Love how you say that but you have repeatedly said Grobe was lucky to inherit a great class from Caldwell to explain away the Seattle bowl appearance.

Which is it? Did Grobe ride Caldwell's great recruits to that bowl game and back-to-back winning seasons or were we "much less attractive" than now? Or do you think prospective coaches simply look at the win loss record the year they're taking over and consider absolutely nothing else? This is just about as ridiculous as saying [Redacted] inherited a winning NCAA tournament team his first year.
 
Caldwell's players were more attractive looking back than anybody knew at the time. Those two arguments are distinct from each other.

Nobody knew there were three long time NFL players coming back on Caldwell's last team. Now that we know that, we can more accurately assess why Grobe was successful out of the box.

Again, make an all-Grobe offensive two deep chart and see how many players were Caldwell recruits. A lot. Calhoun's offense worked fairly well with Caldwell's players. Lobo's offense has failed with Grobe's players.
 
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We had some good players under Caldwell, we saw 2 of them Saturday Fred Robbins and Kelvin Moses (Moses still looked like he couldn't stepped out on the field and lit up anybody wearing Garnet and Gold). For whatever reason, Grobe was able to come in and get more out of the ones that were left the first couple of years.
 
PhDeac said:
Caldwell's players were more attractive looking back than anybody knew at the time. Those two arguments are distinct from each other.

Nobody knew there were three long time NFL players coming back on Caldwell's last team. Now that we know that, we can more accurately assess why Grobe was successful out of the box.

Again, make an all-Grobe offensive two deep chart and see how many players were Caldwell recruits. A lot. Calhoun's offense worked fairly well with Caldwell's players. Lobo's offense has failed with Grobe's players.
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Ah. So you personally are aware that Jim Grobe didn't know anything about the level of talent he was getting when he arrived, despite 19 starters returning as the most experienced group in the ACC and multiple quotes from him about his belief they'd be competitive early?

How many starters do we return next year?

The only real argument that we're "much better off now" than when Grobe inherited an experienced team one year removed from a bowl game win is the stadium and facilities. But if you look at the recent attendance and Wellman's problems I don't know how reaffirming that is. Not to mention Grobe had never made a bowl game prior to coaching at Wake, so it's not like we went out and hired a proven championship coach. Wellman just made a smart hire that fit Wake Forest.
 
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