Is Wellman Losing Control of the Program?

[thedeacfan]

Brownell was hired after [Redacted]. He was still available. There was no chance he would have picked Clemson over Wake, if given the choice, especially at the time. The narrative that there was somehow a shortage of candidates better than [Redacted] and we were forced to pick him is absurd.

Someone previously reported that Brownell was approached and turned it down. Why?
Possibilities...
1) He refused to work for an arrogant, egotistical jackass,
2) He refused to work for an arrogant, egotistical jackass with unrealistically high expectations who just fired a coach that led his team to the NCAAT two years in a row,
3) Wellman insisted that Brownell hire Dino's assistants and Brownell was too much of man to allow his program to be micro-managed, or
4) Wellman laid out his plan to build a program with only "4 year" players and Brownell realized that if he came to Wake he would become a loser moron like his new boss.

 

[marquee moon]

Who is we? Who has confirmed this? Are you saying we talked to both guys and hired Buzz in a week? Never mind that there are literally hundreds of better choices between Ryan and Buzz. Stop trying to justify Wellman's screw-up. We have had it confirmed that Buzz was on his short list. That alone is a fireable offense. There are far better choices that could have been hired.

who cares about how short or long the list was?

the fact he hired him alone is the fireable offense

 

[RacerDeac]

But my take is you're assuming we had dozens of qualified guys to choose from ready and willing to take the job....we didn't.

There are dozens, if not more, MORE qualified coaches than Buzz who would have jumped at the opportunity. Buzz is completely and totally unqualified. Most any mid-major coach with a winning record would be more qualified than Buzz was. You honestly think there were only 4-5 other viable choices besides Buzz?

 

[wsc8521s]

I am not optimistic that our arrogant AD will be able to land a top tier candidate to coach basketball at MSD. I fear that he has poisoned the well...

He did land Clawson, however. Hopefully that was down to more than the BGSU connection

 

[thedeacfan]

He did land Clawson, however. Hopefully that was down to more than the BGSU connection

Yeah. And in a couple of years maybe we'll know what that means...

 

[wakedeac98]

Shaka Smart and Gregg Marshall are the Brad Stevens of 2014.

Both will give a public line of "couldn't be happier" where they are, which is likely true to some extent.
Both however will at least listen to an offer of a bigger job.
Both would move, but only under one of two circurmtances: Elite job opening or a huge salary increase. (Brad Stevens ultimately got both)

Wake isn't an elite enough job to warrant a move with a standard salary.
Wake wasn't willing to pay enough to get Brad Stevens four years ago.

The big question is will Ronald be willing to give a huge money contract to Shaka or Marshall?

IMO both would make the move if enough $ was offered. They may rationalize it and justify it with other reasons, but money will ultimately talk. My guess is that it will take somewhere around the 3mil/year range. I have no idea if Ronald is willng (or able) to go that high, however my gut tells me no.

 

[HONDO2]

Racer -

There are dozens, if not more, MORE qualified coaches than Buzz who would have jumped at the opportunity.

More qualified ? Depends....recall if you will the parameters Hatch/Wellman set for Grobe's replacement. That wittled the list down to 4-5, agreed ?

Buzz is completely and totally unqualified.

Not totally at the time.

Most any mid-major coach with a winning record would be more qualified than Buzz was.

Again, 'qualified' defined under the parameters set per Hatch/Wellman. As with the Clawson profile, it narrowed the field down to 5-6 or so.

You honestly think there were only 4-5 other viable choices besides Buzz?

Well, the 2 top targets eliminated themselves early so the answer was/is yes.

 

[marquee moon]

Racer -



More qualified ? Depends....recall if you will the parameters Hatch/Wellman set for Grobe's replacement. That wittled the list down to 4-5, agreed ?



Not totally at the time.



Again, 'qualified' defined under the parameters set per Hatch/Wellman. As with the Clawson profile, it narrowed the field down to 5-6 or so.



Well, the 2 top targets eliminated themselves early so the answer was/is yes.

what were the parameters for grobe's replacement?

missed that first time around

 

[HONDO2]

98 -

Shaka Smart and Gregg Marshall are the Brad Stevens of 2014.

I'm thinking moreso Marshall. Smart was a couple years ago but get your drift.

Both will give a public line of "couldn't be happier" where they are, which is likely true to some extent.
Both however will at least listen to an offer of a bigger job.

That's hopefully true followed quickly with the 'mutual interest' established.

Both would move, but only under one of two circurmtances: Elite job opening or a huge salary increase. (Brad Stevens ultimately got both)

There's alot more usually involved depending on the candidate but fair enough.

Wake isn't an elite enough job to warrant a move with a standard salary.

I doubt there's such a thing as a 'standard' salary....there's certainly a ceiling for Hatch/Wellman, agreed ? Obviously we ain't gonna outbid the Celtics or Alabama for someone.

Wake wasn't willing to pay enough to get Brad Stevens four years ago.

Actually, Stevens was very happy at Butler and deservedly got a new contract for his loyalty back then.

The big question is will Ronald be willing to give a huge money contract to Shaka or Marshall?

With the backdrop of 'Wake Will' plus the in-progress season implosion, I think Hatch/Wellman have no choice on that now.

IMO both would make the move if enough $ was offered. They may rationalize it and justify it with other reasons, but money will ultimately talk. My guess is that it will take somewhere around the 3mil/year range. I have no idea if Ronald is willng (or able) to go that high, however my gut tells me no.

Once Hatch/Wellman zero in on the top 1-2 guys, it figures to be a BIG contract.

 

[wfumike02]

If one was to set a certain criteria for a new head coach, and said critera led to Jeff [Redacted] becoming a leading candidate to be the head basketball coach at Wake Forest University, wouldn't reason dictate that changing the criteria should be in order?

 

[HONDO2]

Moon -

From Clawson's intro presser per Wellman....( excerpted )

When a position becomes open, we always develop a profile for our next coach, and in this case the profile was real simple. Number one, we wanted a head coach. We wanted someone who had been a head coach. Number two, we wanted someone who was a winner - who had head coaching experience but was also a winner. Number three, we wanted someone who had been at a private institution. There are differences when you're at a private institution versus a public institution, and that experience we want, so we established that as a priority. Number four, we wanted someone who we believed would understand the values and standards and ideals of Wake Forest University, and we found that man in Dave Clawson.

We need someone who is not only a winner; we need someone who understands Wake Forest and understands the other area of importance at Wake Forest, and that is the academic area. If you look at his academic accomplishments, they are equally impressive. Any metric that you use, his metrics and results are outstanding. Whether it be the APR, the graduation rates, or the team GPA, all of them escalated dramatically under his tutelage.

 

[Deacon92]

Didn't Joel Justus or someone in the AD office have a son that played for Brownell. At one point it seemed as if there was a strong backchannel connection..

Someone previously reported that Brownell was approached and turned it down. Why?
Possibilities...
1) He refused to work for an arrogant, egotistical jackass,
2) He refused to work for an arrogant, egotistical jackass with unrealistically high expectations who just fired a coach that led his team to the NCAAT two years in a row,
3) Wellman insisted that Brownell hire Dino's assistants and Brownell was too much of man to allow his program to be micro-managed, or
4) Wellman laid out his plan to build a program with only "4 year" players and Brownell realized that if he came to Wake he would become a loser moron like his new boss.

 

[IMissRandolph]

Brownell was hired after [Redacted]. He was still available. There was no chance he would have picked Clemson over Wake, if given the choice, especially at the time. The narrative that there was somehow a shortage of candidates better than [Redacted] and we were forced to pick him is absurd.

Bingo, choosing [Redacted] over a guy like John Groce (could have had in a heartbeat from Ohio U.) made zero sense

 

[Ball State Deac]

Always thought Groce made the most sense if we weren't able to land a home run. Thankfully, we got [Redacted] so we are all good.

 

[avalon]

Moon -

From Clawson's intro presser per Wellman....( excerpted )

When a position becomes open, we always develop a profile for our next coach, and in this case the profile was real simple. Number one, we wanted a head coach. We wanted someone who had been a head coach. Number two, we wanted someone who was a winner - who had head coaching experience but was also a winner. Number three, we wanted someone who had been at a private institution. There are differences when you're at a private institution versus a public institution, and that experience we want, so we established that as a priority. Number four, we wanted someone who we believed would understand the values and standards and ideals of Wake Forest University, and we found that man in Dave Clawson.

We need someone who is not only a winner; we need someone who understands Wake Forest and understands the other area of importance at Wake Forest, and that is the academic area. If you look at his academic accomplishments, they are equally impressive. Any metric that you use, his metrics and results are outstanding. Whether it be the APR, the graduation rates, or the team GPA, all of them escalated dramatically under his tutelage.

Huh.

 

[thedeacfan]

Moon -

From Clawson's intro presser per Wellman....( excerpted )

When a position becomes open, we always develop a profile for our next coach, and in this case the profile was real simple. Number one, we wanted a head coach. We wanted someone who had been a head coach. Number two, we wanted someone who was a winner - who had head coaching experience but was also a winner. Number three, we wanted someone who had been at a private institution. There are differences when you're at a private institution versus a public institution, and that experience we want, so we established that as a priority. Number four, we wanted someone who we believed would understand the values and standards and ideals of Wake Forest University, and we found that man in Dave Clawson.

We need someone who is not only a winner; we need someone who understands Wake Forest and understands the other area of importance at Wake Forest, and that is the academic area. If you look at his academic accomplishments, they are equally impressive. Any metric that you use, his metrics and results are outstanding. Whether it be the APR, the graduation rates, or the team GPA, all of them escalated dramatically under his tutelage.

Notice how Buzz does not meet 90% of these qualifications. I wonder why? Seriously...

 

[PhDeac]

Substitue Skip for Clawson and it makes perfect sense. Bz doesn't fit at all unless you count Air Force. Counts for Grobe too I guess.

Makes me wonder if private school experience will be in play in this search.

 

[deacz]

Notice how Buzz does not meet 90% of these qualifications. I wonder why? Seriously...

Because he is that wonderful.

 

[meandmyuncleDeac]

The only thing that would lure the top candidates, given the horrible state of our program right now, is money. to get the best, we will have to, pardon the expression, overpay.

 

[WakeForestRanger]

Substitue Skip for Clawson and it makes perfect sense. Bz doesn't fit at all unless you count Air Force. Counts for Grobe too I guess.

Makes me wonder if private school experience will be in play in this search.

I think Wellman would view private school experience as a plus but not a requirement for our basketball program. It narrows our choices down too much and isn't as big as a deal as it is in football anyway.