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It's happening before my very eyes...

DirkTheDeac said:
Skip got caught with his pants down when CP left early. I think he was doing everything in his power to remedy that shortly before his death. I think he proved you can build a program to compete with Duke and Carolina on a regular basis at Wake Forest. And I know for a fact, beyond doubt, that he never looked at the players he recruited as anything less than student athletes. Emphasis on student. His kids had mandatory study sessions. He sometimes led them. If they didn't hit the books they didn't play. If they chose to leave early he understood. There are big dreams and little dreams and Skip appreciated big dreams.
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And that team was built to be at least a middle of the road non-descript NCAA tourney team.
 
bobknightfan said:
You are probably right...and that is why my level of interest in college basketball has plummeted in recent years. The cost of winning is more than I am willing to pay.
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Most national title teams are stocked with 4 stars that leave after 3 or 4 years. Experience and above average talent are the key to winning national titles. The UK way is too flukey because you don't know how a bunch of freshmen will gel. We won't win any sort of title until we get more four stars.
 
bobknightfan said:
That's what I thought. You're saying that this team...without Chris Paul....was built to be a "middle-of-the-road NCAA Tournament" team?

I wonder then, why it went 3-13 in the ACC, finishing dead last in the conference?
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Because shit happens. Look at Carolina this year. Quality wins out of conference and then...
 
bobknightfan said:
That's what I thought. You're saying that this team...without Chris Paul....was built to be a "middle-of-the-road NCAA Tournament" team?

I wonder then, why it went 3-13 in the ACC, finishing dead last in the conference?
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They fell apart, just like the 75-76 team fell apart, and that was under the strategy you seem to be advocating.
 
pinochadeac said:
UNC is the only team in the top 50 that we have beaten. Rons cupcake magic is working on you guys. We will lose and lose big very soon. [Redacted] better not come back.
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Agreed. This team has major flaws that will be exposed by a decent team, especially on the road or a neutral site. Hell, we looked awful against VaTech which was missing multiple starters and sucked before it lost those starters. At the end, we will collapse on the road, in the ACC Tourney, and in any postseason Tourney that we dupe our way into with our rigged non-con schedule. That is who Bzz is - a career loser. So for the first time, in Bzz I trust.

I'm still amazed that people like BKF are so fucking stupid that they view this season as an improvement. Improvement off of Bzz's craptastic first few years may be an improvement for Bzz, but it is not an improvement for Wake. No matter how good we finish, we will still be worse than when Dino left. You're like an abused wife who thinks her husband is great because he only slaps you with an open hand now instead of his belt like he used to.
 
Well the 2005-06 team had some obvious flaws, primarily that we didn't have a true point guard after CP3 left. Of course I don't personally think looking at the shortcomings of a team the year after one of the greatest point guards in basketball history left the team is a good way to judge coaching talent but that's just me. Furthermore, as I pointed out earlier on another thread, that team is almost identical to the current team we have on KenPom. Think about that. The team that is being touted as [Redacted]'s progress by some on here is not any better than the team that is being blasted by the same people as being evidence of Skip being a mediocre coach (notwithstanding the absurdity of using the year after CP3 left as evidence of a coach's failure).

Ridiculous.
 
The only way [Redacted] will be coming back, and one of the major reasons why I believe he will be fired, is with an extension. You can't just have a coach in the final year of his contract and recruit at all, it will be the only thing other coach's say about you "their administration doesn't even believe in the coach, he probably won't even be there next year." So the options are fire [Redacted] now or extend his contract. I suppose it could be a one year extension, but who knows.
 
Let's take away the 7 cupcake home games on our schedule (First 5, Tulane, UNC-G). We are 7-6 against a schedule of the following games:

Home vs: 58, 72, 45, 90, 72
Away at: 30, 15, 5, 42, 180
Neutral vs: 11, 125, 29

That is a strong 13 game schedule and we are 7-6. It would actually be very very easy for the 30th best team in the country to be 14-6 against our schedule. That can be statistically proven as true via basic Kenpom analysis. So the folks that are saying "sure we are 14-6 but it is only because our schedule was easy" are wrong. What you need to be arguing, instead, is that we have been blown out a lot and won all our close games which isn't a sustainable strategy. And that being 75-80 in Kenpom shows we aren't as good as our record.
 
Of course the flip side to that IMO is that we are "lucky" in part because VPI and ND are overvalued overall compared with when we played them (both had injuries or suspensions). We have however won all our close games which is not sustainable.

It probably doesn't matter much for VPI since that team is horrible, but half of ND's schedule is weighted with Jerian Grant on the team.
 
It's hard to compare the 2005-06 team to any team in Wake history. We weren't prepared for the departure of one of our best players ever.
 
Oh look. Another thread Benedict Bob has made about himself. Gobsmacking.
 
bobknightfan said:
The 1975-76 team was still in the rebuilding process. That was the year before they made the NCAA Tournament (for the first time in 15 years)...not the year after they first made the tournament.

Those two teams aren't comparable. If you want to compare the 2005-06 team to one of Tacy's teams, it should be the 1977-78 team...not the 1975-76 team.
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That was a team with a junior guard and a sophomore PF whose jerseys are hanging in the rafters and a junior Jerry Schellenberg. How in the world can you compare the 76-77 team with the 05-06 team after we lost one of the top 5 PGs in history to the draft.

They were only "rebuilding" if you consider any team that doesn't have the absolute optimal mix or talent and experience as "rebuilding"
 
OK, and 75-76 would be comparable to 03-04. I can live with that.
 
bobknightfan said:
Here we go again. Judging everything only by wins & losses....which is only one part of a program, but evidently the only part that many here care about. Our program is much better off now than when Dino left. It has just taken longer than we hoped to cut out all the cancer. Dino's program was out of control. He was bringing in players that had no business being there. He brought in multiple players that later caused multiple embarrassment to the University. If Dino had not been fired we would probably be label "UNLV-East" by now. Thankfully, some influential WF people finally told Wellman that enough was enough, this guy had to go.
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That is complete horseshit, as has been documented on multiple occasions. If Dino's players embarrassed the university, it was only because Bzz is such an abject failure at absolutely everything that he couldn't control them. That is Bzz's fault, not Dino's. And not one single player in the history of Wake Forest basketball has been as big an embarrassment to the University as [Redacted] has been or done more damage to the University than [Redacted] has done.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
That is complete horseshit, as has been documented on multiple occasions. If Dino's players embarrassed the university, it was only because Bzz is such an abject failure at absolutely everything that he couldn't control them. That is Bzz's fault, not Dino's. And not one single player in the history of Wake Forest basketball has been as big an embarrassment to the University as [Redacted] has been or done more damage to the University than [Redacted] has done.
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You have to remember that BFK is the one who claimed that he read about multiple Wake players in the police blotter while Dino was the coach.

He has shown multiple time that he is willing to make things up or outright lie to try to make his point.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
That is complete horseshit, as has been documented on multiple occasions. If Dino's players embarrassed the university, it was only because Bzz is such an abject failure at absolutely everything that he couldn't control them. That is Bzz's fault, not Dino's. And not one single player in the history of Wake Forest basketball has been as big an embarrassment to the University as [Redacted] has been or done more damage to the University than [Redacted] has done.
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If you don't know the reasons Dino was fired by now, you've been talking to the wrong people or the administration has done a better job of keeping it underwraps than I thought. How could anyone fire a coach that just went to the NCAA tournament and won 20 games unless something catastrophic was going on. And it was, my daughter, and many of the kids who worked in the athletic department know all the stories. What about when the team was up all night and drunk prior to playing UNC on TV at 12 noon. Other players and coaches commented about alcohol on our players breath. When RW says " Jeff has done everything asked of him" most of that included cleaning up the image of the school. Buzz worked his rear in off finding places for some of the kids to go and continue basketball and try and get a degree just not at Wake Forest. Dino also had problems keeping his pants zipped but that's another issue unrelated to Buzz.
 
WakeDad said:
What about when the team was up all night and drunk prior to playing UNC on TV at 12 noon. Other players and coaches commented about alcohol on our players breath.
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We played UNC once in both 2008 and 2009. Both were night games. We played them twice in 2010. Once at 7pm, the other at 2pm.

That one nugget took about 20 seconds of research to debunk. Betting the rest of the salacious "info" is just as untrue and foolish. What the hell is wrong with Wake? It's like any coach that gets fired has to be labeled [insert petty Baptist gossip here].

I for one hope when [Redacted] is FINALLY fired, he'll be remembered for what he was: a terrible coach, a worse communicator, and not someone we were proud to have represent our basketball program or university.
 
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It would be a valid argument that Dino's players were such bad guys if there weren't things still going on with our current team that are being swept under the rug.

Doesn't make the current guys on our team "bad guys" either, but there are still things going on that aren't being broadcasted.
 
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