It's happening before my very eyes...

[siff]

Regardless of what happened (or didn't happen) under Dino's watch, no one can argue with the fact that Ron Wellman managed the situation about as poorly as one possibly could. When a manager can't manage, you have a problem.

WellmanOUT

 

[ChrisL68]

If you don't know the reasons Dino was fired by now, you've been talking to the wrong people or the administration has done a better job of keeping it underwraps than I thought. How could anyone fire a coach that just went to the NCAA tournament and won 20 games unless something catastrophic was going on. And it was, my daughter, and many of the kids who worked in the athletic department know all the stories. What about when the team was up all night and drunk prior to playing UNC on TV at 12 noon. Other players and coaches commented about alcohol on our players breath. When RW says " Jeff has done everything asked of him" most of that included cleaning up the image of the school. Buzz worked his rear in off finding places for some of the kids to go and continue basketball and try and get a degree just not at Wake Forest. Dino also had problems keeping his pants zipped but that's another issue unrelated to Buzz.

Doesn't this imply that Bzzzz came in and quietly got rid of a bunch of problem players? But that's not what happened. He kept players until there were major public incidents. DUIs, assault, stealing stuff. I don't think that any of the players that have transferred out under normal circumstances were considered problem players at all.

 

[VaDeac]

I don't think that any of the players that have transferred out under normal circumstances were considered problem players at all.

Quite the opposite, actually. Carson and Fields were above 3.0 students iirc.

 

[DCDeac]

Doesn't this imply that Bzzzz came in and quietly got rid of a bunch of problem players? But that's not what happened. He kept players until there were major public incidents. DUIs, assault, stealing stuff. I don't think that any of the players that have transferred out under normal circumstances were considered problem players at all.

Do you know how scholarships work? Serious question. You can't just kick kids out of a program because a new coach doesn't like their attitude.

 

[ChrisL68]

Do you know how scholarships work? Serious question. You can't just kick kids out of a program because a new coach doesn't like their attitude.

Clawson just dismissed two football players in his first few weeks on the job for certainly less than a public DUI or stealing stuff. Athletic scholarships are renewed yearly, but you certainly don't have to go to that level to indicate to your average athlete, especially one with a penchant for getting in trouble, that he might be happier somewhere else.

 

[deaclite]

When the first class you recruit is Fields, Chase and Green you know you are headed the wrong way.

 

[IrishSlim]

My favorite whisper campaign was when Carson transferred, all of a sudden we started hearing about an overly involved mother. Not the Athletic Department's best work.

 

[DCDeac]

Clawson just dismissed two football players in his first few weeks on the job for certainly less than a public DUI or stealing stuff. Athletic scholarships are renewed yearly, but you certainly don't have to go to that level to indicate to your average athlete, especially one with a penchant for getting in trouble, that he might be happier somewhere else.

I don't know about the specifics behind the football guys. My guess is that during the coaching change there were meetings and there was a mutual decision made during player interviews. I doubt very much Clawson met with these kids and said "Last year you didn't adhere to my new standards, so no scholarship for you this year."

Scholarships are renewed yearly, but you can't just revoke them for no viable reason. My dad was a lawyer in the ACC for years, and that shit doesn't fly. There's big money involved here - particularly in basketball for so many fewer players. Schools who revoke scholarships - even when they make it through the appeal process - can still be on the losing end of million dollar lawsuits. UNC has a handful of settlements to prove it. Typically it's due to injuries since it's a grey area, but if you don't flunk out, get arrested, or get expelled for cheating or something, it's very dangerous to just pull a kid's scholarship and kick him out against his will.

I don't know why it's such a point of controversy. We had some kids who had no business being at Wake and who've since failed multiple other coaches. We had some kids jump off a sinking ship. We had some personal troubles unrelated to anything our coaching staff did. Guys like Ty Walker never quite crossed the line enough to cost them their college degree - but certainly didn't get full playing privileges as if nothing transpired.

This Tech/State game is close. Miller's going to kill us.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

The biggest WTF is why Ty Walker was still on the team until the waning twilight of his career when he committed multiple infractions including crimes. Was [Redacted] "getting the right guys in" when he gave Walker chance after chance?

This whole revisionist history is yet another continued attempt to make everything Dino did BAD BAD BAD while everything Bzz does is GOOD GOOD GOOD. Ridiculous and incorrect dichotomy being drawn time and time again.

 

[KidA23]

You're both right; I specifically remember Grobe cleaning house when he first came to W-S. Lived with a few scholarship football players and can still remember one of them saying to me point blank, "I just got cut" after meeting with JG when he first took over. These 'mutual discussions' definitely are not uncommon in the football realm...not so sure about basketball.

 

[devi8]

fwiw, Odom & Dino were coming off NCAA tourney seasons when they were fired (contract not extended) by Wellman.

Let's go Deacs!

 

[DCDeac]

The biggest WTF is why Ty Walker was still on the team until the waning twilight of his career when he committed multiple infractions including crimes. Was [Redacted] "getting the right guys in" when he gave Walker chance after chance?

This whole revisionist history is yet another continued attempt to make everything Dino did BAD BAD BAD while everything Bzz does is GOOD GOOD GOOD. Ridiculous and incorrect dichotomy being drawn time and time again.

When was Ty arrested?

 

[ChrisL68]

I don't know about the specifics behind the football guys. My guess is that during the coaching change there were meetings and there was a mutual decision made during player interviews. I doubt very much Clawson met with these kids and said "Last year you didn't adhere to my new standards, so no scholarship for you this year."

Scholarships are renewed yearly, but you can't just revoke them for no viable reason. My dad was a lawyer in the ACC for years, and that shit doesn't fly. There's big money involved here - particularly in basketball for so many fewer players. Schools who revoke scholarships - even when they make it through the appeal process - can still be on the losing end of million dollar lawsuits. UNC has a handful of settlements to prove it. Typically it's due to injuries since it's a grey area, but if you don't flunk out, get arrested, or get expelled for cheating or something, it's very dangerous to just pull a kid's scholarship and kick him out against his will.

I don't know why it's such a point of controversy. We had some kids who had no business being at Wake and who've since failed multiple other coaches. We had some kids jump off a sinking ship. We had some personal troubles unrelated to anything our coaching staff did. Guys like Ty Walker never quite crossed the line enough to cost them their college degree - but certainly didn't get full playing privileges as if nothing transpired.

This Tech/State game is close. Miller's going to kill us.

I seem to recall Bzzzz doing exactly that at CU. There are just so many things about the spin from the AD that just seem inconsistent with what happened.

 

[DCDeac]

I seem to recall Bzzzz doing exactly that at CU.

With which player? Thought most of the fallout there was just like Wake. In the program for a little while but made the players miserable enough or benched them enough that they transferred or left.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

When was Ty arrested?

Well he wasn't arrested but he was certainly involved in the Ipad scheme with the pawn shop when he was in trouble for violating the honor code. Then he obviously did something to finally got kicked off the team, presumably for being caught smoking pot for the second time.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

With which player? Thought most of the fallout there was just like Wake. In the program for a little while but made the players miserable enough or benched them enough that they transferred or left.

Lol try all three freshmen coming in Marc Van Burck, Sean Kowal and James Inge as well as sophomore Kelvin Bay.

He cut them all.

Again. [Redacted] GOOD GOOD GOOD!!!!!!!!

 

[ChrisL68]

With which player? Thought most of the fallout there was just like Wake. In the program for a little while but made the players miserable enough or benched them enough that they transferred or left.

I seem to remember that he quickly cleaned house. I did a quick google search and found this on the CU website talking about their football coach.

In either case, CU and Hawk specifically will come out looking like the bad guy here. The problem is that Hawk has used up any good will he had left from fans. Remember when [Redacted] yanked schollys from a handful of CU players when he arrived? He caught some flak, but ultimately given the benefit of the doubt and the story died - Hawk doesn't have that luxury and this will follow him unless he can bury it with some good news.

http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/44257-Hawkins-pulls-Sumler-s-scholarship/page4

 

[DCDeac]

Well he wasn't arrested but he was certainly involved in the Ipad scheme with the pawn shop when he was in trouble for violating the honor code. Then he obviously did something to finally got kicked off the team, presumably for being caught smoking pot for the second time.

Right. I thought it was just an honor council thing with no arrest. Exactly the kind of thing you can't yank a kid's scholly for mid-season. Maybe he should have been benched for more of the season... That'd be a fair argument. At the same time we were horrible and I'm sure much of the coaching staff didn't want to fuck over the guy's future to that extent. I was no fan of Ty but at least he put in the work for his degree.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Right. I thought it was just an honor council thing with no arrest. Exactly the kind of thing you can't yank a kid's scholly for mid-season. Maybe he should have been benched for more of the season... That'd be a fair argument. At the same time we were horrible and I'm sure much of the coaching staff didn't want to fuck over the guy's future to that extent. I was no fan of Ty but at least he put in the work for his degree.

Well he was suspended for the honor code violation before the year started because he got suspended for the entire first semester. It wasn't some mid-season thing. I think it was over the summer.

 

[DCDeac]

I seem to remember that he quickly cleaned house. I did a quick google search and found this on the CU website talking about their football coach.

In either case, CU and Hawk specifically will come out looking like the bad guy here. The problem is that Hawk has used up any good will he had left from fans. Remember when [Redacted] yanked schollys from a handful of CU players when he arrived? He caught some flak, but ultimately given the benefit of the doubt and the story died - Hawk doesn't have that luxury and this will follow him unless he can bury it with some good news.

http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/44257-Hawkins-pulls-Sumler-s-scholarship/page4

I'm squarely in the fire [Redacted] camp so I'm legitimately curious. I heard of the "yanked scholarships" but when I read about the players (particularly the kid with the NBA dad) it just seemed like most didn't like the "my way or leave" vibe of super-nerd [Redacted].

Remember that younger players all want to make the league - if you hate a coach transferring is a much better option than fighting it. Upperclassmen and committed recruits are where it gets ugly.