Jay Bilas bitchslaps the NCAA

[PhilliesDeacs]

Isn't Bilas making a ton of money off of the efforts of student-athletes? Where does he think his paycheck comes from? Not even saying he's not right, but he is part of any problem he talks about.

I see what you're trying to say, but it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[DeacKillsaDevil]

Bilas would get paid the same if the student athletes were paid

 

[Deacon923]

You're right. Fuck him too. Players want pay? Fine. Pay back that scholly and any uniform and equipment costs. Company hire you because of the name on your jersey or thesis/dissertation? Pay it back. Solves all problems. After all- and I really get fucking sick of the pay-for-play people downplaying this- you're getting a free goddamned education and fuck you if you think that isn't worth SOMETHING. Ask the kid whose family- or themselves- has to pay the full fucking ride.

ETA: and the NCAA should be prohibited from linking the names of any athletes to any promo items. They can't have it both ways. So if a school wants to let them sell a nameless jersey number, so be it. But linking it to a particular athlete is off-limits.

The massive difference, of course, is that the people teaching (coaching) the pencil neck on the physics schollie aren't pulling down millions a year in salary, the school isn't making millions selling labcoats with the kids number on them, and the NCAA isn't making millions televising the annual physics final exam.

The free education was a fair quid pro quo 30-40 years ago but I'm not sure that argument holds water anymore. The schools, the coaches, ESPN, and the NCAA are making huge money off these kids. That is a significant and material fact that can't just be swept under the rug in this discussion.

As for the jerseys, the schools are already prohibited from putting players' names on jerseys. But by some amazing coincidence, the only WFU jersey readily available in stores for the past 4 years has had Riley Skinner's number and now Tanner Price's. Likewise with Clowney, McCarron, etc. The NCAA let the mask slip on this little charade and Bilas called them on it. But that's all it is or will ever be, a charade. SC #7 jersey sells because Clowney wears it on gameday, and for no other reason.

 

[Deacon923]

[/B] Too many have forgotten the Boston College point shaving scandal of the early 80's. To have outsiders give money to athletes for gear, autographs or pretty much anything else can lead to disaster. The blank jersey idea is a good one.

Better to have it legal and out in the open than behind closed doors. If those BC players could sign autographs for money after games out in the open without losing their schollies, maybe they would not have been so tempted to take gambling money. Don't confuse the action with the prohibition-related consequences.

 

[olddke]

The massive difference, of course, is that the people teaching (coaching) the pencil neck on the physics schollie aren't pulling down millions a year in salary, the school isn't making millions selling labcoats with the kids number on them, and the NCAA isn't making millions televising the annual physics final exam.

The free education was a fair quid pro quo 30-40 years ago but I'm not sure that argument holds water anymore. The schools, the coaches, ESPN, and the NCAA are making huge money off these kids. That is a significant and material fact that can't just be swept under the rug in this discussion.

As for the jerseys, the schools are already prohibited from putting players' names on jerseys. But by some amazing coincidence, the only WFU jersey readily available in stores for the past 4 years has had Riley Skinner's number and now Tanner Price's. Likewise with Clowney, McCarron, etc. The NCAA let the mask slip on this little charade and Bilas called them on it. But that's all it is or will ever be, a charade. SC #7 jersey sells because Clowney wears it on gameday, and for no other reason.

How many Clowney jerseys would be selling if he were playing developmental league football instead of college football? I am betting about as many as sell for minor league baseball, or the NBA's d league. It is the school fans support not just the 'star' player of the moment. If you want to be payed to play find a professional league not college ball.

 

[qcdeac]

Bilas would get paid the same if the student athletes were paid

Yeah, I didn't really get 07's point there. ESPN/ABC/Disney pays a shitload to televise college sports. Not sure how Bilas is part of the problem of college athletes not receiving some of that compensation.

 

[PhDeac]

Disney pays the actors on their crappy teen shows and movies. They don't pay the student athletes people tune into ESPN to see. That means they can pay their on air talent much more than they would otherwise.

 

[qcdeac]

Disney pays the actors on their crappy teen shows and movies. They don't pay the student athletes people tune into ESPN to see. That means they can pay their on air talent much more than they would otherwise.

No shit. They pay the conferences. ACC gets $240 million/year in the current/new deal.

 

[94Deac]

The massive difference, of course, is that the people teaching (coaching) the pencil neck on the physics schollie aren't pulling down millions a year in salary, the school isn't making millions selling labcoats with the kids number on them, and the NCAA isn't making millions televising the annual physics final exam.

The free education was a fair quid pro quo 30-40 years ago but I'm not sure that argument holds water anymore. The schools, the coaches, ESPN, and the NCAA are making huge money off these kids. That is a significant and material fact that can't just be swept under the rug in this discussion.

As for the jerseys, the schools are already prohibited from putting players' names on jerseys. But by some amazing coincidence, the only WFU jersey readily available in stores for the past 4 years has had Riley Skinner's number and now Tanner Price's. Likewise with Clowney, McCarron, etc. The NCAA let the mask slip on this little charade and Bilas called them on it. But that's all it is or will ever be, a charade. SC #7 jersey sells because Clowney wears it on gameday, and for no other reason.

If we're talking principle, then the amount of money "made" off someone- student or athlete- is irrelevant. And I think to have a legitimate argument, you have to work off principle. And the educational aspect holds more water now than ever- have you seen what college education costs, especially relative to inflation and adjusting for dollar-value 30-40 years ago? It's a gross disservice and insult to people who have to actually pay for one to dismiss the cost. The "value" is a different discussion.

Whether the current popular players' jerseys are available doesn't change the fact that if you bought a #11 in 2009, you're still wearing it (no reason not to) in 2013. Airyn Willis probably thanks you for that but the fact remains that with the exception of retired numbers, the player doesn't own the number in perpetuity. And given the bank of numbers allotted to each position/group, odds are good that eventually another popular player will wear that number again. Ask Frank Johnson about that one.

 

[PhDeac]

Yet the value of a bachelors degree is declining and more people are pursuing upper level degrees.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Yeah, I didn't really get 07's point there. ESPN/ABC/Disney pays a shitload to televise college sports. Not sure how Bilas is part of the problem of college athletes not receiving some of that compensation.

The increasing revenue in college athletics is completely driven by TV contracts.

 

[qcdeac]

The increasing revenue in college athletics is completely driven by TV contracts.

If Bilas was arguing against the athletes I could see your point, but he wants them to share in that increasing revenue.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

The massive difference, of course, is that the people teaching (coaching) the pencil neck on the physics schollie aren't pulling down millions a year in salary, the school isn't making millions selling labcoats with the kids number on them, and the NCAA isn't making millions televising the annual physics final exam.

The free education was a fair quid pro quo 30-40 years ago but I'm not sure that argument holds water anymore. The schools, the coaches, ESPN, and the NCAA are making huge money off these kids. That is a significant and material fact that can't just be swept under the rug in this discussion.

As for the jerseys, the schools are already prohibited from putting players' names on jerseys. But by some amazing coincidence, the only WFU jersey readily available in stores for the past 4 years has had Riley Skinner's number and now Tanner Price's. Likewise with Clowney, McCarron, etc. The NCAA let the mask slip on this little charade and Bilas called them on it. But that's all it is or will ever be, a charade. SC #7 jersey sells because Clowney wears it on gameday, and for no other reason.

Clearly you people have never seen Real Genius.

 

[AnonymousDeac]

Bilas now finds this shirt on sale, despite the NCAA vacating those wins:

 

[tau06]

Explain

Bilas isn't only focused on players not making money while the NCAA takes it in hand over fist, he also blast them for the corruption and hipocracy of the NCAA. My point was that he ignores other blatant cheating examples by schools. His agenda is always pro athlete, anti everything else.

 

[Deacon923]

If we're talking principle, then the amount of money "made" off someone- student or athlete- is irrelevant. And I think to have a legitimate argument, you have to work off principle. And the educational aspect holds more water now than ever- have you seen what college education costs, especially relative to inflation and adjusting for dollar-value 30-40 years ago? It's a gross disservice and insult to people who have to actually pay for one to dismiss the cost. The "value" is a different discussion.

Whether the current popular players' jerseys are available doesn't change the fact that if you bought a #11 in 2009, you're still wearing it (no reason not to) in 2013. Airyn Willis probably thanks you for that but the fact remains that with the exception of retired numbers, the player doesn't own the number in perpetuity. And given the bank of numbers allotted to each position/group, odds are good that eventually another popular player will wear that number again. Ask Frank Johnson about that one.

You're right, we shouldn't be talking about money "made off someone", we should be talking about the marginal value of the player's services. Since there is no functioning market for college football players, how do we determine the marginal value of their services? One proxy is the profitability of the programs they play for.

If Clowney and the rest of the SC starters were playing in a D-league somewhere and SC was still one of the bottomfeeders of the SEC, what would the revenue of the athletic department look like? (May be a bad example because SC fans are crazy, but you get the point). Clearly, there is a marginal value to the school to have Clowney play ball for them instead of some skinny slow dude. Does that marginal value exceed the value of the education SC is allegedly giving him?

Total sticker price of SC education for out of state student is about $35K per their website, times 85 schollies is $2,975,000 (over estimate as I'm sure many of their players are in-state). Tuition is a reasonable proxy for the value of the education. Remember most of that is funded by the booster clubs at most schools, so it's not like the school just deducts it from their bottom line - they have revenue from fans to cover it. That's not directly germane to this discussion but it is worth noting.

Total profit from SC football is $22 million according to this site (can't vouch for its accuracy, first Google result) http://college-sports.findthedata.org/q/13536/3448/How-much-profit-does-the-University-of-South-Carolina-Columbia-Football-team-in-Columbia-South-Carolina-make. That's after they pay Steve Spurrier however many millions he makes, plus the other coaches, plus the AD, etc. So a whole of non-players are making bank, and there's still $22,000,000 (or 10X the cost of the schollies) to go around.

Now take Wake Forest, which as we know barely breaks even on football, and has a bigger scholarship cost. Using this simple proxy, it appears to me that the services of elite athletes like Clowney adds substantial marginal value to the University of South Carolina, at least more than the marginal value Tanner Price and his friends are adding to WFU.

That doesn't mean that all $22,000,000 has to be divided up amongst the football players, but it does strongly indicate that the adults running college football are getting substantial marginal value out of the players under their supervision, in some cases well over and above the value of the education rendered.

 

[avalon]

Zoo with Roy @zoowithroy
If the NCAA had any sense of humor they’d start selling vintage Jay Bilas Duke jerseys on their site

Jay Bilas @JayBilas
@zoowithroy And, it would make big money. Every rapper and trill dude out there would be sporting a Bilas jersey. Spike Lee would have one.

:heart:

 

[91deac]

Over the last 20 years, the NBA has taken a significantly larger portion of the top-end talent from NCAA basketball - e.g. 20 years ago, early entries into the draft were rare, now they are much more common place. Nevertheless, college basketball is more popular than ever.

That tells me, the value being created is truly more about the name on the front of the jersey, than the name on the back.

College football fans don't show up and turn on the TV to watch the best football team in world play. Those guys play on Sundays. College fans turn on the games to watch their school compete with other schools to win championships. If the NFL expanded to 50 teams and did away with the early entry rule, NCAA football would lose their top 500 players over the next few years. But 5 five years from now, NCAA football would be just as big as it is today.

 

[PhDeac]

By what metric is college basketball more popular than ever?

 

[qcdeac]

By what metric is college basketball more popular than ever?

Butler fans, but the survey was done 3 months ago.