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Judge rules "Stop and Frisk" violated rights

Meanwhile, Mr. Nanny State himself vows to fight it.
 
police paperwork describing some 4.43 million stops between 2004 and the middle of 2012.

But the stops were not the end of the problem, Judge Scheindlin found. After officers stopped people, they often conducted frisks for weapons, or searched the subjects’ pockets for contraband, like drugs, without any legal grounds for doing so. Also, she found that during police stops, blacks and Hispanics “were more likely to be subjected to the use of force than whites, despite the fact that whites are more likely to be found with weapons or contraband.”

About 83 percent of the stops between 2004 and 2012 involved blacks and Hispanics
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So crazy. And what's even crazier is Obama had this to say about Ray Kelly last month:
In an interview with a New York Univision affiliate last week, the president said Kelly has done an “extraordinary job” in New York.
“Mr. Kelly might be very happy where he is, but if he’s not I’d want to know about it, because obviously he’d be very well qualified for the [Homeland Security] job,” the president said.
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While the total number of stops annually has climbed to more than half a million in just a few years (up from 160,851 in 2003), the number of illegal guns discovered during stops has remained relatively steady and modest in comparison. As Figure 8A shows, the number of guns recovered over this six-year period ranges from a low of 627 (2003) to a high of 824 (2008), averaging 703. It should be noted that over this same period, the number of stops more than tripled, meaning the yield of guns per stop has declined considerably (see Figure 8B).
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http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/the-dubious-math-behind-stop-and-frisk/278065/
 
hilarious
http://www.hulu.com/watch/521819

and

Vincent: Breaks down like this, okay: it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of a hash bar, it's legal to sell it. It's illegal to carry it, but that doesn't really matter 'cause, get a load of this, all right; if you get stopped by the cops in Amsterdam, it's illegal for them to search you. I mean, that's a right the cops in Amsterdam don't have.

and

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
- Thomas Jefferson
 
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BobStackFan4Life said:
While the total number of stops annually has climbed to more than half a million in just a few years (up from 160,851 in 2003), the number of illegal guns discovered during stops has remained relatively steady and modest in comparison. As Figure 8A shows, the number of guns recovered over this six-year period ranges from a low of 627 (2003) to a high of 824 (2008), averaging 703. It should be noted that over this same period, the number of stops more than tripled, meaning the yield of guns per stop has declined considerably (see Figure 8B).
Click to expand...

BUT WHAT IF ONE LIFE WAS SAVED?!?!? Surely that justifies the violation of freedoms/rights and what equates to institutionalized bigotry and racism, right?

That "one life" argument that has been bandied about to justify everything from gun bans to NSA's surveillance of everyone to banning large soft drinks is a dangerous, dangerous argument. It can be used to justify nearly anything.
 
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The other one I get tired of is the President saying "it's my number one job to keep Americans safe". He says it all the time. Check the oath of office, Jack. It says, "uphold the Constitution". There isn't anything in there about "keeping Americans safe".
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
About 83 percent of the stops between 2004 and 2012 involved blacks and Hispanics

So crazy. And what's even crazier is Obama had this to say about Ray Kelly last month:
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Not really crazy when you consider this:

“The stark reality is that crime happens in communities of color,” Kelly told “Nightline” co-anchor Bill Weir Wednesday.
“About 70% to 75% of the people described as committing violent crimes — assault, robbery, shootings, grand larceny — are described as being African-American."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...targeting-african-americans-article-1.1332840

If the procedure is going to be in place (not saying whether it should or shouldn't), then presumably it should be targeted to be effective.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Not really crazy when you consider this:

“The stark reality is that crime happens in communities of color,” Kelly told “Nightline” co-anchor Bill Weir Wednesday.
“About 70% to 75% of the people described as committing violent crimes — assault, robbery, shootings, grand larceny — are described as being African-American."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...targeting-african-americans-article-1.1332840

If the procedure is going to be in place (not saying whether it should or shouldn't), then presumably it should be targeted to be effective.
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Sounds like they are missing their target then. Random frisking is not really a preventive measure for robbery, assaults or other violent crimes that Kelly mentions. Random frisking, no matter how illegal it is, finds contraband and weapons, and those have been found more often on white victims of this police abuse.

But the stops were not the end of the problem, Judge Scheindlin found. After officers stopped people, they often conducted frisks for weapons, or searched the subjects’ pockets for contraband, like drugs, without any legal grounds for doing so. Also, she found that during police stops, blacks and Hispanics “were more likely to be subjected to the use of force than whites, despite the fact that whites are more likely to be found with weapons or contraband.”
Click to expand...
 
RacerDeac said:
Sounds like they are missing their target then. Random frisking is not really a preventive measure for robbery, assaults or other violent crimes that Kelly mentions. Random frisking, no matter how illegal it is, finds contraband and weapons, and those have been found more often on white victims of this police abuse.
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Crime dropped significantly during the years in question, so the facts contradict your opinion.
 
You could shakedown residents of pretty much any neighborhood in America and get similar percentages of "crime".
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Crime dropped significantly during the years in question, so the facts contradict your opinion.
Click to expand...

Kelly rightly points out that the murder rate in our great city is falling. But for some reason he neglects to mention that Stop and Frisk numbers are falling too.
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http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/the-dubious-math-behind-stop-and-frisk/278065/
The number of stop-and-frisk reports filed by New York City police fell 51% in the first three months of this year compared with the same period last year.

The decline comes as the crime-fighting tactic undergoes a high-profile challenge in federal court and emerges as a central issue in this year's race to succeed Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
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Overall crime is also down 2.7% this year through April 28 with murders leading the way with a 30% decline compared with the same period last year, police data show.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323372504578467361507997492.html?mod=WSJ_LatestHeadlines
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Not really crazy when you consider this:

“The stark reality is that crime happens in communities of color,” Kelly told “Nightline” co-anchor Bill Weir Wednesday.
“About 70% to 75% of the people described as committing violent crimes — assault, robbery, shootings, grand larceny — are described as being African-American."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...targeting-african-americans-article-1.1332840

If the procedure is going to be in place (not saying whether it should or shouldn't), then presumably it should be targeted to be effective.
Click to expand...

I think it's still crazy, not to mention incredibly racist, to treat millions of black males as criminals because of the color of their skin. Also:
the number of weapons recovered from stops each year has remained pretty much constant. Meanwhile, marijuana arrests have spiked (while suspicion of drug possession is cited by police in less than 1 percent of instances as the reason for a stop). Federal statistics also consistently show that marijuana use is more prevalent among young white people than young black people. So: more guns are not being recovered, more young black men are being arrested for marijuana possession, while more white people are users of the drug. And yet, says Kelly (with malleable stats at his finger tips), African Americans are being “understopped.”
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http://www.salon.com/2013/05/02/ny_police_commissioner_blacks_understopped_by_police/
 
RacerDeac said:
Violent crime has dropped all over the place without illegal shakedowns. Correlation /= causation.
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Gun deaths dropped by 1/3 in NYC from 2000 to 2011. The police officers credit this program. Is there a 100% causation rate? Who knows, but they are the ones who have the most first-hand knowledge.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
I think it's still crazy, not to mention incredibly racist, to treat millions of black males as criminals because of the color of their skin. Also:

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/02/ny_police_commissioner_blacks_understopped_by_police/
Click to expand...

How is it racist if the stop and frisk percentages generally coincide with the crime percentages? Now, it certainly may be improper to stop and frisk anyone without a valid suspicion; however, it isn't racist if (assuming the program itself is legal) the demographics of the searches match the crime demographics.
 
So you'd be in favor of "Stop and Audit" in the financial district?
 
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