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Judge rules "Stop and Frisk" violated rights

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
How is it racist if the stop and frisk percentages generally coincide with the crime percentages? Now, it certainly may be improper to stop and frisk anyone without a valid suspicion; however, it isn't racist if (assuming the program itself is legal) the demographics of the searches match the crime demographics.
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But they don't match the crime demographics. Again:
the number of weapons recovered from stops each year has remained pretty much constant. Meanwhile, marijuana arrests have spiked (while suspicion of drug possession is cited by police in less than 1 percent of instances as the reason for a stop). Federal statistics also consistently show that marijuana use is more prevalent among young white people than young black people. So: more guns are not being recovered, more young black men are being arrested for marijuana possession, while more white people are users of the drug. And yet, says Kelly (with malleable stats at his finger tips), African Americans are being “understopped.”
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White folks are getting a pass.
 
PhDeac said:
So you'd be in favor of "Stop and Audit" in the financial district?
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That's what the IRS currently does. Your SSN or EIN gets picked, you're audited. Though there are some characteristics of returns that make them more likely to be selected, there isn't any probable cause associated with it.
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
But they don't match the crime demographics. Again:

White folks are getting a pass.
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They aren't stopping for weed, they are stopping for evidence of more violent crimes. If you happen to have weed on you when stopped for something else, they will arrest you. If you don't have weed on you, then you usually won't be arrested for having weed on you. You may have a problem with arresting people for weed possession, but that is a completely different discussion then whether this program works to enforce the laws as written.
 
Well, if you subject people to illegal and unconstitutional searches, you will probably find evidence. But in our system of law, that end cannot justify the intrusion.
 
(a) I didn't say it did. I've repeatedly said that the program itself may not be proper. Proper and effective are two different things.

(b) No, you won't probably find evidence (especially possession evidence) if the person is not in fact doing anything illegal.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Gun deaths dropped by 1/3 in NYC from 2000 to 2011. The police officers credit this program. Is there a 100% causation rate? Who knows, but they are the ones who have the most first-hand knowledge.
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Imagine that...cops talk positively about a program that allows them to stop anyone and pat them down, particularly "dangerous" black and Hispanic people. Who would have thunk it?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
(a) I didn't say it did. I've repeatedly said that the program itself may not be proper. Proper and effective are two different things.

(b) No, you won't probably find evidence (especially possession evidence) if the person is not in fact doing anything illegal.
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There's no real proof it's been effective. i showed you other places that had similar murder results without it. They also had similar drops in other crimes.

There is no way to state empirically that it was the reason for the drop in the crime rate.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
That's what the IRS currently does. Your SSN or EIN gets picked, you're audited. Though there are some characteristics of returns that make them more likely to be selected, there isn't any probable cause associated with it.
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I think what Ph means is that nearly all white collar crimes are committed by white males so, by your logic, it would be a highly effective practice for the IRS/SEC to investigate ANY white male they find working in the financial sector. I mean they are, after all, the ones that commit the crimes and if they aren't doing anything illegal why should they care about being audited. Your posts recently represent nearly everything that is going wrong with this country and I mean that in the most insulting and offensive way possible.
 
Not just white collar, all white males who work in bars or car repair shops or own a retail store should be stopped as they might be committing crimes. All lawyers should be stopped as they may be overbilling.
 
BigTreeDeac said:
I think what Ph means is that nearly all white collar crimes are committed by white males so, by your logic, it would be a highly effective practice for the IRS/SEC to investigate ANY white male they find working in the financial sector. I mean they are, after all, the ones that commit the crimes and if they aren't doing anything illegal why should they care about being audited. Your posts recently represent nearly everything that is going wrong with this country and I mean that in the most insulting and offensive way possible.
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I would be fine with that.
 
Ideally, no. But our current structure is so far from ideal in terms of government action that this doesn't add much to the existing shitshow.
 
Fascists aren't necessarily Hitler. It could be any RW dictatorship
 
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Since Mayor Bloomberg took office in 2002, there have been almost 460,000 misdemeanor marijuana arrests. And while blacks and Hispanics make up 45% of pot smokers in New York City, they account for 86% of possession arrests. The bottom line is that if you're white and smoke marijuana, you're far less likely to be stopped and arrested for it than if you're a person of color.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/17/legalise-marijuana-tax-nyc
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Crime dropped significantly during the years in question, so the facts contradict your opinion.
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So let's cops invade everyone's home in high crime neighborhoods just in case someone in the house is committing a crime.

How comethey don't do stop and frisk on Wall Street and around bars. strip clubs and other establishments there? We know there's a lot of drug. Why aren't they stopped on the street or in their offices?
 
RJKarl said:
So let's cops invade everyone's home in high crime neighborhoods just in case someone in the house is committing a crime.

How comethey don't do stop and frisk on Wall Street and around bars. strip clubs and other establishments there? We know there's a lot of drug. Why aren't they stopped on the street or in their offices?
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Um, most DUI checkpoints are set up near bars and strip clubs.
 
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