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KanhojiAngre's Playground

KanhojiAngre said:
European qualification next year? But hey, nice job on the midseason transfer to ensure 7th place. If you hadn't done that, the season might have turned into a real embarrassment.
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European qualification is a trophy that can be won? Are you Arsene Wenger?

No, can't be. You don't know enough about football, as you don't know one of the top 20-30 players in all of La Liga.



Last season for Manchester United was a complete embarrassment and I hope it is never repeated. But I will not shirk away from acknowledging that the club failed last season.
 
European qualification is a revenue stream that can be leveraged. Better to have than not to have...well unless maybe you're in the Europa League, then it's a little more debatable.

If the top Spanish clubs didn't have Herrera by this age, surely there's a reason. Having watched some video of him in games against them, I can see what those reasons might have been. But when you're not in Europe you have to take some chances, especially right now with how important the Champions League is going to become.

Allen, Henderson, Sturridge, Suarez, Coutinho, Mignolet...all guys people had doubts about, all played vital roles. But only Suarez cost near what Shaw and Herrera did. Liverpool made some buys that didn't work so well in that time also (like Aspas and the jury is still out on Borini and Alberto, being younger players) but in total, they got what they needed to build a young core without spending big on any one player.
 
The great Maradona has spoken out in support of Suarez! And Chiellini himself has called the punishment "excessive".
 
KanhojiAngre said:
30 million for a guy that if he wasn't in the EU would fail to get a work permit. I don't know much about him, and I doubt I'll have much reason to care.
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KanhojiAngre said:
If the top Spanish clubs didn't have Herrera by this age, surely there's a reason. Having watched some video of him in games against them, I can see what those reasons might have been. But when you're not in Europe you have to take some chances, especially right now with how important the Champions League is going to become.
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LOLOLOLOL
 
Bryan Swanson ‏@skysports_bryan 2m
 FIFA's Jerome Valcke on Luis Suarez needing "treatment": "I think he should find a way to stop doing it."

Bryan Swanson ‏@skysports_bryan 2m
FIFA's Valcke on Suarez four-month ban from football: "It’s not Liverpool who is punished. It’s the player who is punished." #LFC.

[URL="https://twitter.com/owen_g"] Owen Gibson ‏@owen_g 8m
 [/URL]Valcke on Suarez: "I think he should find a way to stop doing it. He should go through a treatment. It is definitely wrong."
 
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BobStackFan4Life said:
The great Maradona has spoken out in support of Suarez! And Chiellini himself has called the punishment "excessive".
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Wondered when that was going to be mentioned. But I guess quoting random Argentines on Twitter makes a lot more sense.
 
TownieDeac said:
you should hate it if you hate united
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Well I don't because I think they paid too much. Too much for any defender, way too much for any side defender (the most expensive side defender transfer EVER), and way way WAY too much for an 18 year old side defender.

I guess we've all forgotten Anderomnomnom as the cautionary tale for this kind of thing. That United is looking at buying all the midfielders shows that didn't work out.
 
You can and should use Anderson (and others) as a cautionary tale because it doesn't matter if it's the same position or what kind of player...what matters is that it's a very high risk move and similar reward could be realized with lower risk maneuvers. I suspect Southampton will find it easier replacing Shaw than Lallana and presumably Lovren -- there are possibilities out there to replace Lovren but not sure Southampton is going to end up being able to get them.

What Man U spending in bundles of 30M again is supposed to do is make up for the failures in having done so last year. Even though I don't think he's going to end up being their savior, what Man U did in buying Januzaj IMO makes more sense than what they're doing now buying Shaw.
 
TownieDeac said:
southampton replacing and united building are completely and entirely different arguments
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It's not an argument. It's a matter of valuation. The one that's a more scarce commodity should be the more expensive one, right? By definition, the more scarce one should be the more difficult to replace.

*If* Shaw ends up being their captain 12 years from now, then yeah it ends up working out. But there's a LOT of risk in the road from here to there, but it hasn't been priced into the fee paid. United essentially paid as if there was little to no risk.

So yeah...not bothered, not sorry my team (which is in the market for a left back as well but doesn't seem to ever seriously considered Shaw despite obviously being very aware of the team) didn't do it. And it's very funny that United sacked a guy that proved he could find serious talent at a much, much lower cost just because he didn't win with a team that was not equipped to win (which is now obvious by the extent to which United are spending and looking to continue to spend).
 
Amazing stuff today out of the Hillsborough inquest. Hard to believe that after 25 years, evidence of gross negligence, malfeasance, and forgery are just now coming out. Guess that's what happens when a nation has a media cabal bent biased against a club and region of the country, and national leadership that regarded both as inconvenient to their objectives and was happy to make them a scapegoat.

Also amazing that a South Yorkshire policeman is allowed to officiate Liverpool games given that organization's obvious conflict of interest.
 
God, I am so fucking tired of the concept that United were not a team that could win things. I've already debunked that nonsense multiple times on the Premier League thread.


The squad that Moyes inherited and added Fellaini to, and added Mata halfway through the season to, won the Premier League the previous year by 11 points and had the League locked up with 4 matches still to play -- meaning that after they won the title the players took their foot off the gas and finished in weaker form (W1D2L1.)

How anyone can argue that same team just a few months later wasn't equipped to win football matches and compete for honors is fucking beyond me. It's borderline stupidity, in fact. Moyes failed at his job at Old Trafford. It really is as simple as that.



The reason United are adding Shaw now is that Patrice Evra will be 2 years older (34) at the end of this coming season than he was after last season. He won't have the legs to be a full time left back anymore. Now, I agree that the 30 million is overpaying for Luke Shaw and that his real value is probably around the 20 mil mark, but they are paying a premium because 1) He is English, so will fulfill a homegrown spot for years to come; 2) he has the best potential at LB across all of Europe; and C) he is already pretty damn good at age 18.
Comparing Shaw to Januzaj is fucking laughable, by the way. United brought in Januzaj when he was 16 and had not played a professional game yet. Luke Shaw has already played in the World Cup at 18 years of age. (side note: Manchester United having two teenagers that are good enough to play in the World Cup is very exciting for United supporters, I mean, it's just awesome.)

Oh, and Kanhoji, you can't post this:
what Man U did in buying Januzaj IMO makes more sense than what they're doing now buying Shaw.
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and then say this about United:
a team that was not equipped to win
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If a team is not equipped to win, which is wrong, but I'll humor you, then you can't say that the club should go searching for teenagers that have never played a 1st team match in their lives. If the team is in dire need of talent, which you seem to be suggesting, then they need to go out and buy talent ready to contribute right away, no?




What do you think of the value of spending 25 million on a 26 year old with just two seasons of top flight football?
 
TownieDeac said:
i fucking hate the "no talent" argument at united - they added mata and felliani to a title winning side the year before, of course they were fucking equipped to win
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Then why do they need to spend even more? They should be good to go, I mean title winners plus two 30 million pound midfielders...obviously the coach's fault, no need to spend money.

Apparently Van Gaal agrees with me that it was a rubbish side that needed massive investment and improvement. Pretty hard to argue that now.
 
KanhojiAngre said:
Then why do they need to spend even more? They should be good to go, I mean title winners plus two 30 million pound midfielders...obviously the coach's fault, no need to spend money.

Apparently Van Gaal agrees with me that it was a rubbish side that needed massive investment and improvement. Pretty hard to argue that now.
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What? Are you seriously saying that?


Were Chelsea a "rubbish" side? Added Cesc Fabregas and Diego Costa this summer. They were clearly a rubbish side!


Liverpool were rubbish! Adding Lallana and Lambert, possibly adding Lovren, Alexis Sanchez, and Markovic too. RUBBISH SIDE!



Because only terrible teams try to buy players.
 
That is one of the dumbest and most short-sighted things I've ever read in my life. Like, "we shouldn't spend money on infrastructure" level of stupidity.
 
deacvision7 said:
How anyone can argue that same team just a few months later wasn't equipped to win football matches and compete for honors is fucking beyond me. It's borderline stupidity, in fact. Moyes failed at his job at Old Trafford. It really is as simple as that.

Take it up with your manager that is trying to buy half of Europe. He obviously doesn't think it was a very good side, and he's the guy you've been fellating the whole World Cup.

Comparing Shaw to Januzaj is fucking laughable, by the way. United brought in Januzaj when he was 16 and had not played a professional game yet. Luke Shaw has already played in the World Cup at 18 years of age. (side note: Manchester United having two teenagers that are good enough to play in the World Cup is very exciting for United supporters, I mean, it's just awesome.)

Januzaj is only 19...that one year makes all the difference? Sterling was bought when he was younger too and cost, even after add ons, 1/5 or less of what Man U is paying for Shaw.

What do you think of the value of spending 25 million on a 26 year old with just two seasons of top flight football?
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I think it's a lot less risky than making an 18 year old fullback one of the most expensive defensive transfers in the history of the game.

There's plenty of places on the internet you can find evidence of Lallana's value, heck go no further than your beloved whoscored.
+ Strengths
Finishing
Strong
Defensive contribution
Strong
Ball interception
Strong

(All of that plus creating chances is pretty much everything a player in his position is asked to do.)

- Weaknesses
(Player has no significant weaknesses)

Chance creation, chance conversion, work rate and distance covered, speed with which it's covered, pressing ability...all very strong, among the best in the Premier League in many of those categories. He was the straw that stirred the drink for the Saints. No doubt about it. Fits how Rodgers wants to set out a team as well, and can play multiple positions. He cost less than Luke Shaw, and you know what you're going to get from him.

Luke Shaw's Characteristics
+ Strengths
Dribbling
Very Strong
- Weaknesses
Holding on to the ball
Weak

LOL wut? So he likes to dribble but doesn't keep possession very well when doing it? Oh well hell make him the most expensive teenage defender ever please!
 
Paying 30 mil for an 18 year old defender is risky, but Shaw is a high reward caliber player.


And I'd rather the club spend 10 million more than a player's real value than that money line the Glazer's pockets instead.





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Take it up with your manager that is trying to buy half of Europe. He obviously doesn't think it was a very good side, and he's the guy you've been fellating the whole World Cup.
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In 2000/01 Manchester United won the Premier League by 10 points.


But that side was clearly RUBBISH because the club paid 28 mil for Juan Veron and 20 mil for Ruud van Nistelrooy. (Not to mention 8 million on Diego Forlan, he made the Scousers cry, you know?)
 
TownieDeac said:
and it can be both things, that they are a team with talent and a team that needs to spend
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Well shit every team has talent. They have Rooney and Van Persie, not that they work well together, but they have them.

But they didn't have nearly enough talent, especially in midfield and and that weakness was further exposed by their defense needing so much help that it stretched the midfield further. They got a train run on them in the midfield by pretty much anyone with a good one...that's why Van Gaal is trying to buy pretty much any midfielder of note in Europe.

They're going to end up with a lot of new players trying to slot into the side because the side Van Gaal inherited was not very good, which is exactly why Richard Scudamore gave them a cakewalk of a starting schedule -- because he regards the Premier League as weakened with a struggling Man U, and so he had to give Van Gaal the best chance of being able to integrate all of the new faces.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...l-appeal-Premier-League-admits-Scudamore.html

Obviously if that's Scudamore's view, he's going to do everything he can to prevent that harm from continuing. Pretty obvious but the Manchester/London centered media is silent.
 
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