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Keyshawn Woods being honored for senior night

A team that lost almost 50% of it's scoring; it's two best inside players and our #2 three point shooter (McClinton doesn't count) and having no experienced players to replace them meant this team was never going to finish in the Top 10 in the ACC barring miracle improvements.

It's not possible to rationally dispute that with everyone back (save Wilbekin and maybe Key), that next year's team is vastly more talented than this year's.
 
A team that lost almost 50% of it's scoring; it's two best inside players and our #2 three point shooter (McClinton doesn't count) and having no experienced players to replace them meant this team was never going to finish in the Top 10 in the ACC barring miracle improvements.

It's not possible to rationally dispute that with everyone back (save Wilbekin and maybe Key), that next year's team is vastly more talented than this year's.

Definitely less talented and experienced at guard.
 
Let's look at the ACC:

ND- loses Farrell and Colson - #92 ESPN recruit
Pitt. will simply suck
GT - loses Lammers and Jackson - Adds Devoe - we will be much better
BC - add #56 recruit...but still small -we should be better them
Cuse - Adds two Top 40 recruits - should be better than us
L'Ville- No recruits. Loses Snider and Mahmoud - in the mix with Wake
Clemson - loses Grantham and Devoe -Zero Top 100 ESPN recruits
VT- loses Bibb gets #88 recruit - In the mix for 4-8 with Wake
Miami- Will be losing Newton and Walker for sure and probably Brown - no incoming Top 100 player -we should be better and deeper
F$U- loses Allen and Angola no Top 100 recruits.
State - Loses both Freemans, Abu, Hunt and possibly Yurtseven - Gets #70 recruit

Realistically, we are in the mix for 4-8 preseason. Most likely 6-8 in the ACC.

This ignores coaching.

For example, Colson was not a top 100 recruit, Farrell was not even a top 400 recruit. Most teams have players that get better, we seem to struggle with that. May be related to coaching.
 
This ignores coaching.

For example, Colson was not a top 100 recruit, Farrell was not even a top 400 recruit. Most teams have players that get better, we seem to struggle with that. May be related to coaching.

I've got lots of problems with our coaching, but arguing that we don't have players that improve seems odd given what happened with Collins and Doral.
 
Craw hasn't had a ridonculous year, but his career will stack up pretty well historically at Wake after next year. If he keeps up the stats of the past three years, he'll be:

Scoring- Top 10 (probably #8 or #9)
Assists - Top 5 (most likely #2 or #3)
Steals - Top 4
3 pointers - Will probably end up #6

But reading these boards, he really sucks...
 
Craw hasn't had a ridonculous year, but his career will stack up pretty well historically at Wake after next year. If he keeps up the stats of the past three years, he'll be:

Scoring- Top 10 (probably #8 or #9)
Assists - Top 5 (most likely #2 or #3)
Steals - Top 4
3 pointers - Will probably end up #6

But reading these boards, he really sucks...

Do you watch the games or just read box scores?
 
Crawford's individual stats probably measure up really well in the record books. Unfortunately, those haven't translated into wins, primarily because his teams haven't played a lick of defense.
 
Craw benefits from being a player willing to dominate the ball and take shots on a bad team. Someone has to score the points and get the assists, even as the losses pile up. I don't rank him as a Top 10 Wake player no matter where he ends up in the stats.
 
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I think part of the disconnect with fans is due to Manning's personality. But here is my quick summary:

Coach Clawson came in with a system and proven track record of turning programs around. He earned the right to his two 3-9 seasons based on what he did prior. And he was good at communicating that plan. We also saw all this raw talent that were frosh and soph and we showed patience as a fanbase. We also aren't historically awesome in football so it was easier to be patient. That patience was rewarded in a good 7-6 season and an even more enjoyable 8-5 season that was more difficult due to a more difficult schedule.

I think Manning does have a system he is trying to employ. He just doesn't have the track record we can linger in as we sit on our thumbs and ride out a shitty season (the way we did mostly Clawson's first two awful years that showed some of the worst offensive football I have ever seen). Manning also does a pretty shitty job articulating his strategy. I do think it is easier as a football coach to state, "we want to get faster," without denigrating specific players while basketball is harder. If you say, we want to get more athletic on the perimeter, it is hard for a Wilbekin not to take that personally.

Not to make excuses, but I also think losing both Dinos and John Collins was just a critical blow. Just like Notre Dame losing all their guys to injuries this year. Since they are coming off years of success, it is easier to swallow. I do sit and watch us lose to NC State at home where I thought we played pretty well most of the game (as did State) and think, if John Collins were in this game for 30 minutes, we win by 8 instead of lose by 8. Or if Dinos is in there for 30 minutes, it is a 1 or 2 point game with 1 minute left. I wonder what our record be with one or both. I think we'd be a 20+ win team with Collins and Dinos; a 20-win team with Collins and a 17-win team with Dinos. Because of that, I am willing to give Manning this year.

On the flip side, his system seems to want that KU like team of long athletic players. Next year, he will have those players, albeit almost all of those wing player will be frosh or soph (save Donovan Mitchell). So, I want to see his system work next year. It worked in spades offensively two years ago. But next year they absolutely have to bring it. I have yet to see us play consistent awesome defense in any of Manning 4 years here. I need to see that next year. Manning's track record doesn't indicate that is going to happen. One of problems seem to be intensity. I suppose you can recruit intensity, but 2star guys can play with intensity so that is totally on Manning. He needs to create an atmosphere that is more intense. intensity can be coached. Collins played with intensity, but I fear he brought that with him from high school If Manning can't coach intensity, he is going to have to go.

consistent awesome defense??????

I would take consistently average defense

I would take inconsistent but capable of awesome defense

we've had consistently bad to horrible defense
 
CJ averaged more TOs than assists/game, about half the number of assists, about half the number of steals, fewer rebounds and fewer points. Bryant's DWS and OWS are better than CJ's. You like things like WS/40 - CJ .103. BC .116

CJ's shooting is a bit better
 
Losing Keyshawn would suck, period. Get him back 100% and healthy. His last go round, and you know he'll be fired up.
 
Bryant and CJ would have been a nice backcourt. Bryant is PG who has been forced to score. CJ is SG who was forced to play PG. Together, they would have complimented each other.

I agree with PAZ. It would be great for Key to return. He's exactly what we need. It would also be in his best interest to return.
 
Losing Keyshawn would suck, period. Get him back 100% and healthy. His last go round, and you know he'll be fired up.

THIS! Any Wake fan that thinks losing Key is addition by subtraction is just wrong.... I would love to see Keyshawn at 100% w/Crawford who is a great player that just doesn't always play so great, but that is not uncommon on a team that struggles. Guys try to do too much when often times less is actually more. But, unless we start playing with more passion, energy, and hustle I'm not sure it matters who plays.
 
Woods is one of the only guys we can just give the ball to and get a bucket from. He was our leading scorer as a 6th man until he got hurt. Losing him would suck, not sure how anyone could debate that.
 
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