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Labor/Workers movements thread

Isn't Chancellor like a royal title ? I thought we didn't have that in this country.
 
I am sort of on the other side of this, as a sort of Prof that writes grants for projects to support PhD students and post-docs. I definitely sympathize with students and increasing wages (I had to enroll my kids in Medicaid as a grad student 15 years ago), but, in my field at least, increasing wages will mean there are simply fewer positions to give out. The amount of money to pay graduate students and fund research projects is finite and not growing, especially not on pace with inflation, so budgeting on research projects becomes a zero sum game. Here is one anecdote: I am currently trying to get a grant/contract together for a PhD student project that includes $25K in annual salary, plus health benefits and free tuition for 4 years. The funder has now told me that the budget is simply too big at $250K and they need me to cut $35k over the 4 years. That basically means I'll only have 3.5 years of funding, which is too short for a dissertation. Meanwhile the student I offered the position to said she really wants to come work with me, but is asking to up the salary to $30K. The student has a reasonable request, but I have no options for increasing the funding. It's a squeeze from both sides.

This is project specific funding, which means the money available is dependent on the funder and how much they value the proposed work. Frankly, funders and society at large is putting less and less value on academic research. TA positions are a different story. That money is sourced form tuitions $ at the university and those decisions are solely the purview of the University. Still, I think that increases in TA stipends will likely lead to fewer positions available.
 
Liquid Karma said:
I was once married to a postdoc. It's criminal how universities will string them along for cheap research labor.
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While at the same time hiding the fact that their job prospects are zero to less than zero when they finally get done being used.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
While at the same time hiding the fact that their job prospects are zero to less than zero when they finally get done being used.
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Yeah, and having said what I said above, I actually think it would be a good move for universities to pump out few PhD degrees overall. We produce way more degrees than my field can support. Many students end up as number crunchers in other fields because they can't find work in conservation or wildlife management. So, it would be win win, offer fewer degrees and pay the students we do accept into programs more money.
 
And maybe invest in some better career counseling for these kids, pre-graduation.
 
birdman said:
Yeah, and having said what I said above, I actually think it would be a good move for universities to pump out few PhD degrees overall. We produce way more degrees than my field can support. Many students end up as number crunchers in other fields because they can't find work in conservation or wildlife management. So, it would be win win, offer fewer degrees and pay the students we do accept into programs more money.
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what is driving the high number of participants in the PhD program when almost everyone going in knows it's bloodsport come job search time in many fields?

is it universities looking for cheap labor? because most aren't charging tuition, right?
 
birdman said:
I am sort of on the other side of this, as a sort of Prof that writes grants for projects to support PhD students and post-docs. I definitely sympathize with students and increasing wages (I had to enroll my kids in Medicaid as a grad student 15 years ago), but, in my field at least, increasing wages will mean there are simply fewer positions to give out. The amount of money to pay graduate students and fund research projects is finite and not growing, especially not on pace with inflation, so budgeting on research projects becomes a zero sum game. Here is one anecdote: I am currently trying to get a grant/contract together for a PhD student project that includes $25K in annual salary, plus health benefits and free tuition for 4 years. The funder has now told me that the budget is simply too big at $250K and they need me to cut $35k over the 4 years. That basically means I'll only have 3.5 years of funding, which is too short for a dissertation. Meanwhile the student I offered the position to said she really wants to come work with me, but is asking to up the salary to $30K. The student has a reasonable request, but I have no options for increasing the funding. It's a squeeze from both sides.

This is project specific funding, which means the money available is dependent on the funder and how much they value the proposed work. Frankly, funders and society at large is putting less and less value on academic research. TA positions are a different story. That money is sourced form tuitions $ at the university and those decisions are solely the purview of the University. Still, I think that increases in TA stipends will likely lead to fewer positions available.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. One major problem is that even though grad students don't get paid enough research assistants are really expensive (salary + tuition + insurance) on a grant compared to alternatives like covering summer salary for an assistant professor. It's been hard for me to keep students on projects because either they still want to teach or they want to do their dissertation on a different topic. I finally got a student who wants to do research with me in exactly my area and she is dealing with family issues and got homesick.

On the other hand, we have a ton of TAs, so I've had a TA in every lower-level undergrad course I've taught for the last few years after not having TAs my entire career.

Biff, you've established you know nothing about this topic and come through with awful hot takes, so maybe ask questions instead.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
what is driving the high number of participants in the PhD program when almost everyone going in knows it's bloodsport come job search time in many fields?

is it universities looking for cheap labor? because most aren't charging tuition, right?
Click to expand...

Because they're interested in the field and want credentials to do work in that field or with the skillset they learn in that field. Our program has a great track record of placing our PhD grads in tenure-track jobs, instructor jobs, or private sector research jobs. Most of the horror stories you hear about PhDs who can't get jobs or postdocs who are stuck in purgatory come from the STEM fields everyone is trying to promote.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
what is driving the high number of participants in the PhD program when almost everyone going in knows it's bloodsport come job search time in many fields?

is it universities looking for cheap labor? because most aren't charging tuition, right?
Click to expand...

Fear of entering the non-academic work arena.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Fear of entering the non-academic work arena.
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For some yes, but many grad students come out of a non-academic job or career and plenty have non-academic jobs while enrolled to help make ends meet. And plenty plan on going into private sector jobs after they finish.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
what is driving the high number of participants in the PhD program when almost everyone going in knows it's bloodsport come job search time in many fields?

is it universities looking for cheap labor? because most aren't charging tuition, right?
Click to expand...
I think there is also a bean counting component. Professors are rewarded to supervising and graduating PhD students, so individual professors try to bring on students with out thinking about the job market and future for those students. Programs at Universities get rewards and prestige from producing PhDs, the provost might reward the program with more funding or what ever. Then Universities, get extra points in the US News and World Reports rankings for producing more PhDs. Basically the system is rewarding it's self for producing a product but society at large is not sure they need/want the product.
 
I'd like to thank OnlyFans for making it possible for so many young women to earn their graduate degrees.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Fear of entering the non-academic work arena.
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I don't think it is a fear. I think it is a dream for many to work in academia and giving up a dream is hard.

Most non-academic jobs would pay way better starting salaries and would have far less stress (teaching and tenure), but people don't usually persue a PhD because they are looking for the big bucks, they want to be a researcher and an educator.
 
I can't imagine going through all those years of school and study, just so I can sit in my office and realize that nobody wants to come see me during office hours.
 
I mean it’s the same as undergrad but with even more exploitation. There is still a general program ranking system even if informal, yet people go and get their PhD at no name places. You would think after 4 years of undergrad you would learn but some people just can’t give up whatever dream they have.
 
BiffTannen said:
I can't imagine going through all those years of school and study, just so I can sit in my office and realize that nobody wants to come see me during office hours.
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Why would you want someone to come see you during your office hours?
 
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