Law School is a sham

[awaken]

Ok, your UT is ranked like #67. Decidedly second tier. You are in the middle of a fairly large class. Therefore your chances of getting a summer job with a decent law firm are quite low IMO. You will have to knock it out of the park this spring and your 2L year to get back toward the top and get a decent 2L summer gig, and there is no guarantee (at all) that this will parlay into a full time job. If you don't knock it out of the park, you're looking at government or public interest jobs which are going to pay very little. You're looking at 60K of debt by the time you get out I guess.

I think it may be time to cut your losses, especially given your statement that you don't have a passion for it. Go into IT as someone suggested or go get your electrician's license. Judging from what I paid the guys who rewired some outlets for me this week, they do OK.

My daughter is friends with an electrician's kid. They do QUITE WELL. Keep in mind they run the family business. So the advice is being the business owner, not an employee. Unlike IT, this job will never be off-shored.

 

[Go]

I think a potential business model would be to sell this idea to a current mid 2nd tier LS: make your mission to get every student a job, prepare them for the "real world" instead of the Bar thereby ensuring future success which should translate into alumni giving which should translate into profits.

Oh and fuck the 3rd year of LS. Make it an externship year.

 

[meandmyuncleDeac]

If you hate it, leave NOW!

 

[Manifest Destiny]

If you hate it, leave NOW!

Have until friday to decide.

 

[BacktoBack]

The killer is the 80 year old partner that won't quit. We need these dudes to die (most of them are amazing lawyers and people so I say that in jest...kinda).

Be a judge...My sister is a career clerk for a federal judge in his mid 80's. He could apparently make as much or more money not working but enjoys the work. Wow..hardass generation
I'm retiring as soon as my shit is in order. I'm not dying at the office.

 

[wake20]

I will say this, then. First off, a partner in my firm just hit 50 and is making BANK. As long as you're not a donk, you'll build a name for yourself in a specific area, build up a client list, work your way through a few tough years making shit as an associate, and eventually do fine. She charges $425/hour, takes off a lot of time, leaves the shit work for the associates, and just handles the big stuff. She's not a Harvard law grad or anything, either.

Also, the degree opens up a bunch of doors. The license opens a shit ton of doors. Traffic ticket? Get someone in your firm to handle that pro bono. Landlord won't refund your security deposit? Ask a co-worker to sign off on a complaint that the landlord won't want to fight. That's more of the side perks, but it's come in handy a few times.

 

[BacktoBack]

Also, while not a totally neutral source of information, do you have any advisers at school or close mentors/professors that might be able to help? Sometimes folks who have been in the game for awhile can help with these tough decisions. Good luck!

 

[buckets]

I will say this, then. First off, a partner in my firm just hit 50 and is making BANK. As long as you're not a donk, you'll build a name for yourself in a specific area, build up a client list, work your way through a few tough years making shit as an associate, and eventually do fine. She charges $425/hour, takes off a lot of time, leaves the shit work for the associates, and just handles the big stuff. She's not a Harvard law grad or anything, either.

Also, the degree opens up a bunch of doors. The license opens a shit ton of doors. Traffic ticket? Get someone in your firm to handle that pro bono. Landlord won't refund your security deposit? Ask a co-worker to sign off on a complaint that the landlord won't want to fight. That's more of the side perks, but it's come in handy a few times.

$425/hour is pretty reasonable for a Partner, isn't it? I feel like mid-level (Manager/VPs) at consulting firms charge that range by the hour.

 

[Brangus]

If you hate it, leave NOW!

Yeah if you're in law school and hate the material, quit. It's true that law school does not teach you how to practice, but that is the subject and material you will deal with, but at a much more finite level, using a ton of boring documents as your aid.

I wish I had bagged it, and I make a decent six figure living. But so does my buddy who works for a drug testing/background check company and takes every other Friday off for golf, so does my buddy who works an easy desk job for a tattoo needle and ink producer (he has one tattoo, from the Army), so does my buddy who opened a bar...there are other ways to live. I was never an imaginative person...being a lawyer is not an imaginative, creative career path. It's often "Well, now on to law school." If you like it, cool. If you don't, well I personally wish I had not trapped myself in this profession.

And don't buy into the idea that a law degree opens a lot of other doors. You can be an effective commercial real estate agent, perhaps. Most anything else would require another degree. Unless you have family money, law school has one end; the practice of law.

 

[wfudkn]

$425/hour is pretty reasonable for a Partner, isn't it? I feel like mid-level (Manager/VPs) at consulting firms charge that range by the hour.

My rate when I left my firm was $650, and there are people there with rates over $1,000.

 

[wake20]

Yeah, $425 is definitely reasonable. Other partner is at $500, I believe, but I don't do much work for him. They don't practice in biglaw areas, though. Hard to charge $600/hour for an uncontested divorce or something. The better money is charging $300-400 for associate work, paying eh salaries, making performance bonuses high, and raking in all of the proceeds from their bitch work.

 

[buckets]

Have until friday to decide.

 

[Fayettenam]

I will say this, then. First off, a partner in my firm just hit 50 and is making BANK. As long as you're not a donk, you'll build a name for yourself in a specific area, build up a client list, work your way through a few tough years making shit as an associate, and eventually do fine. She charges $425/hour, takes off a lot of time, leaves the shit work for the associates, and just handles the big stuff. She's not a Harvard law grad or anything, either.

Also, the degree opens up a bunch of doors. The license opens a shit ton of doors. Traffic ticket? Get someone in your firm to handle that pro bono. Landlord won't refund your security deposit? Ask a co-worker to sign off on a complaint that the landlord won't want to fight. That's more of the side perks, but it's come in handy a few times.

I think his concern, as it should be, is whether he'll even be a competitive candidate for a firm.

 

[ibleedgoldandblack]

At least in biglaw, every firm I've encountered has a mandatory retirement age.

Unsurprisingly, the boomers bitch and moan about it.

The firm I just left did not.

Nope. One of the guys I worked for is 73 with no intention of slowing down anytime soon. There was a guy at my previous firm who was in his 80s and still chugging along.

Most places that I know of don't have mandatory retirement, but do have a mandatory age at which they de-equitize partners.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

Just FWIW, I went to a T2 lawschool that in the 10 years since I graduated has received some borderline T1 rankings. I had mediocre grades there (I never thought I wanted to be a lawyer), but I moved to a big city after school and went from job to job working my way up, and probably now have a gig much better than my grades or lawschool rank would predict. Not sure how personable you are, but you can never underestimate how socially inept most attorneys are. If you can talk to people and be well liked, and also work your ass off, that can make up for whatever shortcomings you may have on your resume. You just gotta put your head down and not give up, and you will eventually work your way though the shit.

My one caveat was that I had no debt, so I realize it's much less of a gamble that way, but the idea that someone with middle of the pack grades at a T2 law school will never achieve a high paying job in law is dumb.

 

[wfudkn]

Just FWIW, I went to a T2 lawschool that in the 10 years since I graduated has received some borderline T1 rankings. I had mediocre grades there (I never thought I wanted to be a lawyer), but I moved to a big city after school and went from job to job working my way up, and probably now have a gig much better than my grades or lawschool rank would predict. Not sure how personable you are, but you can never underestimate how socially inept most attorneys are. If you can talk to people and be well liked, and also work your ass off, that can make up for whatever shortcomings you may have on your resume. You just gotta put your head down and not give up, and you will eventually work your way though the shit.

My one caveat was that I had no debt, so I realize it's much less of a gamble that way, but the idea that someone with middle of the pack grades at a T2 law school will never achieve a high paying job in law is dumb.

Oh, I defs agree with this. I was T3 with mediocre grades, moved to DC after graduation without ever having looked for a job in DC (was offered a job in new england but decided I didn't want to live there at the last minute) and was working at biglaw by October. It's certainly possible, but that's not the norm.

 

[Manifest Destiny]

Just FWIW, I went to a T2 lawschool that in the 10 years since I graduated has received some borderline T1 rankings. I had mediocre grades there (I never thought I wanted to be a lawyer), but I moved to a big city after school and went from job to job working my way up, and probably now have a gig much better than my grades or lawschool rank would predict. Not sure how personable you are, but you can never underestimate how socially inept most attorneys are. If you can talk to people and be well liked, and also work your ass off, that can make up for whatever shortcomings you may have on your resume. You just gotta put your head down and not give up, and you will eventually work your way though the shit.

My one caveat was that I had no debt, so I realize it's much less of a gamble that way, but the idea that someone with middle of the pack grades at a T2 law school will never achieve a high paying job in law is dumb.

Oh, I defs agree with this. I was T3 with mediocre grades, moved to DC after graduation without ever having looked for a job in DC (was offered a job in new england but decided I didn't want to live there at the last minute) and was working at biglaw by October. It's certainly possible, but that's not the norm.

How were guys able to get that first job coming out?

 

[wfudkn]

How were guys able to get that first job coming out?

Luck certainly played a part. I knew someone in the firm who tipped me off to the fact that they recently lost someone and were going to need to post the position and didn't need someone with experience, so I was able to get my resume in and meet with people before the job was ever made public. Right place, right time.

 

[TexasDeac10]

$425/hour is pretty reasonable for a Partner, isn't it? I feel like mid-level (Manager/VPs) at consulting firms charge that range by the hour.

You gotta get in that 4-digit club if you wanna be a true bucket$ lawyer.

 

[ITK]

Just FWIW, I went to a T2 lawschool that in the 10 years since I graduated has received some borderline T1 rankings. I had mediocre grades there (I never thought I wanted to be a lawyer), but I moved to a big city after school and went from job to job working my way up, and probably now have a gig much better than my grades or lawschool rank would predict. Not sure how personable you are, but you can never underestimate how socially inept most attorneys are. If you can talk to people and be well liked, and also work your ass off, that can make up for whatever shortcomings you may have on your resume. You just gotta put your head down and not give up, and you will eventually work your way though the shit.

My one caveat was that I had no debt, so I realize it's much less of a gamble that way, but the idea that someone with middle of the pack grades at a T2 law school will never achieve a high paying job in law is dumb.

This is kinda good advice for anything.