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Law School is a sham

wfudkn said:
Luck certainly played a part. I knew someone in the firm who tipped me off to the fact that they recently lost someone and were going to need to post the position and didn't need someone with experience, so I was able to get my resume in and meet with people before the job was ever made public. Right place, right time.
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Gotcha man. Well let me ask you this; it sounds like most people on here work for a middle to large firm (could be wrong), any of ya'll familiar with the guys that specialize in DUI's and that sort? I'm not above having a commercial/billboard in my future.
 
I'm asked to meet with a lot of new associates with the bank and I pretty much tell all of them that people usually work themselves into tiers from a pure competence standpoint and that tiebreaking tiers is based on who you would rather see from 8-6 every day. Basically don't be a dickbutt and you'll get the nod over the guy that is fairly equal to you in performance.
 
I'm at a decidedly T-2 law school as well and am making really good "grades" (long story, but my school is very experiential learning oriented and is well ahead on that front, but like most liberal shit gives out subjective evaluations which are three or four sentences long rather than grade. In other words the professor tells your strengths and weaknesses on the topic and gives a buzz word which basically equates to a grade). I still don't know what kind of law I want to practice, or even if I want to actually practice law rather than use my degree for policy areas, but the people here who were miserable 1L year and contemplated dropping out are still miserable 2L year. Not really much help there other than to say you just gotta do what you feel like you should do.
 
debated going to law school after UG. so glad i didnt.
 
wfudkn said:
Started in-house last week.
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Yeah I saw that on another thread, I would be interested to know what your thoughts are on work-life balance compared to private practice, type of work, comparative compensation etc.
 
Manifest Destiny said:
Gotcha man. Well let me ask you this; it sounds like most people on here work for a middle to large firm (could be wrong), any of ya'll familiar with the guys that specialize in DUI's and that sort? I'm not above having a commercial/billboard in my future.
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I don't do DUI/criminal, but am in a small-ish (6 attorneys) plaintiff's personal injury firm. Law school was a generally unpleasant experience for me, but I love my job. I work 32-34 hours a week, like my co-workers, and was able to get a fair amount of responsibility from day one. I make a small salary by attorney standards, but the bonuses make up for it. There is, of course, a significant stigma attached with Plaintiff's PI, which was the main reason I never saw myself doing this when I was in college/law school, but that wasn't an issue upon meeting our clients and starting to work here. I got my job by virtue of meeting one of the partners while I was in high school and keeping in touch since then, so I certainly didn't need an outstanding law school resume, either.

All else aside, I think the best thing to do would be to stick it out for another semester, try to split your summer between two different types of law firms, and then make a determination on whether you like the actual practice or law enough to make a career out of of it. Of course, if it's going to be another $20k or so for that extra semester, that's a hefty price tag. If you do decide to quit, run in the opposite direction and never look back.
 
Keep in mind that for many people the idea of a career that they will love is bs. I'm quite certain that for me at least there does not exist a job that I would be excited to get up for and go to work every morning. Some just suck less than others.
 
Jeff Fatt said:
Keep in mind that for many people the idea of a career that they will love is bs. I'm quite certain that for me at least there does not exist a job that I would be excited to get up for and go to work every morning. Some just suck less than others.
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I hear that man. That is definitely one of the reasons i have for staying bc i dont want to quit only to find out the grass is not greener elsewhere.
OldGoldBeard said:
I don't do DUI/criminal, but am in a small-ish (6 attorneys) plaintiff's personal injury firm. Law school was a generally unpleasant experience for me, but I love my job. I work 32-34 hours a week, like my co-workers, and was able to get a fair amount of responsibility from day one. I make a small salary by attorney standards, but the bonuses make up for it. There is, of course, a significant stigma attached with Plaintiff's PI, which was the main reason I never saw myself doing this when I was in college/law school, but that wasn't an issue upon meeting our clients and starting to work here. I got my job by virtue of meeting one of the partners while I was in high school and keeping in touch since then, so I certainly didn't need an outstanding law school resume, either.

All else aside, I think the best thing to do would be to stick it out for another semester, try to split your summer between two different types of law firms, and then make a determination on whether you like the actual practice or law enough to make a career out of of it. Of course, if it's going to be another $20k or so for that extra semester, that's a hefty price tag. If you do decide to quit, run in the opposite direction and never look back.
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That sounds like an awesome gig. Do plaintiffs PI attorneys tend to work less hours in general bc they arent seeking billable hours? Just curious.
 
bojanglefunk said:
Yeah I saw that on another thread, I would be interested to know what your thoughts are on work-life balance compared to private practice, type of work, comparative compensation etc.
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Still TBD. This is the first time I've ever worked outside a firm, and the environment is quite different. It's certainly not a 9-5 job (last week I was in generally from 8am-7pm), and there will certainly be some late nights, but I'm pretty used to that. What is different, at least for me, is that I've been used to having a tremendous amount of freedom in terms of coming and going and working from home, and that is different here. The type of work will be very similar in a lot of respects, but what will be different is helping implement policies and changes on a company-wide basis as opposed to just giving advice to a client and letting them deal with the internal implementation/logistics. The company has made a huge effort in the past two years of reigning in outside legal fees, so we do the majority of stuff in-house. Comp is competitive with the firm, and the benefits are WAY better. I have a fucking pension, which is hilarious. I laughed at them when they told me that. And a free parking spot across the street from the Verizon center. I was paying $265/mo at my old office. And the job is a mile from my house, so the commute is way better, and my wife and all of my friends work within 6 blocks of me. Everything about this made sense for me.
 
Living in Jacksonville, I'm exposed to a large number of donks that wasted three years of time and tuition at Florida Coastal.

If your grades aren't the best, I would really recommend finding a part time gig in a law office to get experience. That's how almost everybody I know in Jacksonville that went to a lower tier school got jobs.
 
Anecdotal, but almost all of my Wake/Duke friends who went to law school did the firm thing until their early 30s then moved on to a law related job or started their own practice. One makes bank doing foreclosure defense in FL, another is in-house, another was a Congressional staffer and recently moved to the SEC to join Kara Stein, another who was probably near partner for a major firm quit to work for an e-discovery firm. All are much happier and doing very well for themselves.
 
I think that's pretty important. Basically, it's impossible to know what you want to do out of law school. Sure, there are some who feel very strongly about one area of law, but that's pretty rare and doesn't always work out. I'm at a small firm (7 attorneys) where associates are given the freedom to stray from our focus areas if they want to practice another area. As OGB said, the salaries aren't 6 figures, but you can get there eventually with bonuses. I also don't work more than 40 hours and never work weekends. Your school should have a job bank where small or mid size firms post positions for part-time clerks. Apply, apply, apply. I probably sent out 40 cover letters because I knew I wouldn't finish Top 10%. Those part-time positions usually lead to offers when you're ready to graduate. There's no hiring season for smaller firms, so you just gotta keep looking until an opportunity comes up. Once you're in, you can start looking around for other jobs while getting a paycheck.

I think your current state of mind is common for 1L students. Honestly, it could mean you're going to be miserable practicing or you could love it. It sucks, but what you do as a 1L (possibly other than legal research and writing or whatever it's called at your school) isn't what happens when you start working. The thing to remember, if you decide to continue - a lot of law students and young associates don't like what they do. The ones who move on to other areas, start their own practice, work in another law-related job, etc all eventually find their place. You won't be stuck hating your life for 50 years if you don't like it at first.
 
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Manifest Destiny said:
How were guys able to get that first job coming out?
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I just kept my ear to the ground and was available to interview at a moments notice. Similar to wfudkn, I moved to ATL without ever having looked for a job here. In law school all my job efforts were DC based. I decided at the last minute F the mid-atlantic, I was coming home to the south. I got out in 03, which was right in the middle of the Bush recession. Not as bad as it is now, but jobs were not growing on trees. At the time there was a big surge in CRE and development, and while lots of firms weren't hiring, firms in this sector needed warm bodies. I took some shitty temp jobs while looking and canvassed the town with my resume. The first real job I landed was at a firm that was around 30-40 attys. The dude called me one morning and asked if I could interview that afternoon. They just fired some chick because she was a social moron and had pissed off the client she was servicing. They needed a personable butt to fill a seat. I was there and told him I could start immediately.

I didnt really want to work at that firm, but it was a paycheck, and I kept looking for the next job while working at that first one. Once you land the first job, its way easier to land the second one. You just cant be complacent.
 
wfudkn said:
Still TBD. This is the first time I've ever worked outside a firm, and the environment is quite different. It's certainly not a 9-5 job (last week I was in generally from 8am-7pm), and there will certainly be some late nights, but I'm pretty used to that. What is different, at least for me, is that I've been used to having a tremendous amount of freedom in terms of coming and going and working from home, and that is different here. The type of work will be very similar in a lot of respects, but what will be different is helping implement policies and changes on a company-wide basis as opposed to just giving advice to a client and letting them deal with the internal implementation/logistics. The company has made a huge effort in the past two years of reigning in outside legal fees, so we do the majority of stuff in-house. Comp is competitive with the firm, and the benefits are WAY better. I have a fucking pension, which is hilarious. I laughed at them when they told me that. And a free parking spot across the street from the Verizon center. I was paying $265/mo at my old office. And the job is a mile from my house, so the commute is way better, and my wife and all of my friends work within 6 blocks of me. Everything about this made sense for me.
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There's a lot of things about the law firm environment that I don't care for, but that's one thing I know I'll miss if/when I ever jump in-house. I hate how unpredictable my hours can be, but there's a lot of flexibility that comes with it too.

Edit: "flexibility" isn't the right word. It's very unflexible in the sense that work has to be done when client wants it done. But I never feel the need to get in face time during the in-betweens.
 
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timthedeac said:
There's a lot of things about the law firm environment that I don't care for, but that's one thing I know I'll miss if/when I ever jump in-house. I hate how unpredictable my hours can be, but there's a lot of flexibility that comes with it too.

Edit: "flexibility" isn't the right word. It's very unflexible in the sense that work has to be done when client wants it done. But I never feel the need to get in face time during the in-betweens.
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I got you. It's an adjustment, especially since during my last 3-4 years in the firm I was very autonomous, and rarely saw the partners I was working for and rarely brought them in to deal with issues on their clients unless it was something that clearly required the gravitas of a partner.
 
Jeff Fatt said:
Keep in mind that for many people the idea of a career that they will love is bs. I'm quite certain that for me at least there does not exist a job that I would be excited to get up for and go to work every morning. Some just suck less than others.
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I don't think its BS if you are running your own business. I deal with a ton of small business owners, and they all seem to enjoy what they do. I have a couple of side projects, and enjoy those immensley more than my job as a lawyer. Hopefully at some point they won't just be side projects.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I don't think its BS if you are running your own business. I deal with a ton of small business owners, and they all seem to enjoy what they do. I have a couple of side projects, and enjoy those immensley more than my job as a lawyer. Hopefully at some point they won't just be side projects.
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this is my hope. i like a lot of things about my job (interacting with clients, coming up with solutions to make my clients more effective,e tc.), but i hate a lot of the things that come with consulting for a massive firm that cares far more about the bottom line than anything i do. hoping to build a client list and light out on my own in the next 1-3 years to make it so my time is more built around the things i like and less hr/huge company shiz.
 
also so i see more of my billable rate with less work.
 
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