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Law School is a sham

straight out of school i had crap grades and no work experience. but i was better at excel and data mining than 99% of the work force. i also knew some sql. all of this was due to my econ background and being a baseball nerd. so my first 2 jobs were temp jobs using those skills because i got a perfect score on the excel test the temp agency gave me. pay was good, and i worked my ass off. got an offer from one but didnt take it because it was sprint, and they sucked. ended up getting a job in corporate finance for a govt contractor. hated it. realized what i was good at was qa'ing data and figuring out how to migrate data. now i do consulting for a software company revolving around fund accounting software. i work on implementations, help clients figure out how to properly use the software, create excel add-ins, etc.

so can every liberal arts major jump straight to a consulting gig? no, but if you have some technical skills or are willing to work hard and maybe boring stuff you can find your way there through the backdoor.
 
Manifest, you should just tank until you're in the bottom third of your class, and then apply for that scholarship that the highly successful entertainment lawyer or whatever he is gives out to one student in the bottom third of every class at UT.
 
Manifest, you should just tank until you're in the bottom third of your class, and then apply for that scholarship that the highly successful entertainment lawyer or whatever he is gives out to one student in the bottom third of every class at UT.

That's a solid plan. That dude, Joel Katz, has one of the most ridiculous careers ever. He stumbled into being James Brown's agent and a week after practicing entertainment law for the first time he was called "the greatest agent in the world" by James brown in the NY times. Crazy stuff.
 
But they're all different groups. If you're in the audit practice, then all you do is audit. Sometimes private companies that need an audit for whatever reason, but you never really "consult" or do the other services you mentioned.

But to your point... even auditors will recommend bullshit things that financial controls and advise on accounting policies.

Plenty of consulting engagements that medium sized and even larger CPA firms will do. My first engagement in public accounting out here in LA was 100% consulting (fixing someone's books)
 
I've been a lawyer for almost 15 years. Worked several years at an international firm with 500+ lawyers, and did antitrust/banking litigation and other business-v-business disputes. It sucked. Now work at a 5-person firm (all partners; eat what we kill but share the overhead) and do some personal injury plaintiff work, some hourly litigation, and some estate-related stuff. It is infinitely better, and I make 2 or 3 times what I was making at the big firm I left, depending on how some of my contingency-fee cases go.

Law school is a huge sham, and prepares you zero. I currently have a law student who "shadows" me on most of the interesting stuff - depositions, mediations, hearings, trials - she tries to make herself available, she stays up to speed on the cases, and balances that with her school work. She is not paid for this, but she is learning a ton, and there is a decent chance that I hire her as an associate when she graduates. I don't really care about her grades or anything else, because law school is a sham and I know that.

The point is, if you want to be a litigator and cannot go the private sector route because of grades/resume, try to get into a similar situation with someone at a small firm. Show that effort, show you have a personality, show that interest, and you can probably land a decent opportunity out of school, and eventually, you will make good money if you stay the course.

If you are inclined to sit back and waffle about the profession and just try to improve your grades, you are pretty much fucked and you should quit right now and quit incurring debt and go do something different. The best way to turn it around is to be honest with yourself - you won't get a big firm job, you probably won't get a private sector job based on on-campus interviews, and you need to start networking.

This post says it best! Law school really is nothing like practicing law, so go shadow a lawyer for the summer (or heck, in the spring, couple hours a week around classes) and see if you like it. Find some alum to follow to District Court (i.e. misdemeanors and traffic tickets) and see if that circus is for you. Find another alum, or just go sit in Superior Court on a Monday and watch opening statements in a trial. If you are in it just for the money though, run! The market economy for mid-class and lower graduates is terrible - you'll have to do a lot of door-to-door work on resumes, networking, etc., to eventually find yourself in the right place at the right time.

My path wasn't typical at all, but I absolutely LOVE practicing law. During law school, I volunteered and had a fellowship at Legal Aid, as well as took WFU's Litigation Clinic. After graduation, while looking for work, somebody at church asked if I knew how to write a will. (I did, thanks to Legal Aid and not law school). I wrote theirs. Somebody else needed a traffic ticket - I learned that in Lit Clinic. Then my first will client passed away and the family paid me a nominal fee to attend the probate hearing with them and help answer questions and explain the legal terminology that the clerk's aren't allowed to. One thing led to another, and 6 months later we "officially" opened Payne Law, PLLC, and now almost 2 years later, I am super happy. I set my own hours, I have fantastic mentors (fellow lawyers who couldn't hire an attorney but will gladly help you out when you have a question about "how do I do _____?"), and I make decent money. Yea, I'm on the income based repayment, but its entirely possible that in 3-4 years, I'll be able to "catch up" on my payments, if I keep on my current track.

So... the best way to find out if law school is worth it is to go find what real lawyers are doing and shadow them for free. Offer to do anything they need done, and trust me, they'll find something. We had two "volunteers" at our firm this past summer (one was taking a class at her undergrad and needed an unpaid internship, the other is a local student home from college and just wanted to see if they thought they would enjoy being a lawyer). Both helped me a ton - there's always a project that needs to be done that I can't bill for, so I get to it when I get to it (or never? ha!).

If you ever want to chat about this, feel free to PM me and I'll shoot you my contact info.

Disclaimer: I taught high school band for 3.5 years (graduated from undergrad at Christmas) and was miserable - unsupportive parents and administrators, etc.; now I handle death and divorce (besides traffic tickets, business advising, and general practice stuff that pops up in a small town) and absolutely love it.

Either way, good luck to you and I wish you the best in whatever path you choose. It's not a decision to take lightly!
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. After talking to the bursars office, it seems that I can only receive a 40% tuition reimbursement at this time (which is crazy bc school has only been in a week and we got our grades 3 days ago). That being said, I think my best course of action is to finish the semester. I have a lot of free time on certain days so I am going to a few law firms this week to see if I can work for free and really try to make some connections. Will reevaluate at the end of the year but, for now, going to try to put myself in the best situation possible.
 
Good decision. At this point it sounds like you might as well go all in for another semester. Then re-evaluate over the summer. Good luck to you
 
You mean they don't release grades until second semester starts and you're locked in for the spring (40% reimbursement? What a joke.)? I never would have guessed. :rulz:

I knew a handful of people who were looking to get out after the first semester (no one left). I only remember one who felt like she should have left years later.
 
40K=fairly large monthly payment.

I wouldn't take their 40% answer.

Good luck dude. 120k debt is crippling though.
 
40K=fairly large monthly payment.

I wouldn't take their 40% answer.

Good luck dude. 120k debt is crippling though.

Agreed. I don't know what interest rates are today but when I finished up med school rates were in the 3's. I owed a little over 125k. My payment on a 30 year re-pay is ~$600 a month. It's not stifling but it's not awesome either. Essentially a car payment every month. Lawyers can start re-pay sooner than I could ( I was 34 when I finished up my training) but realistically I make more than most starting lawyers.
 
Agreed. I don't know what interest rates are today but when I finished up med school rates were in the 3's. I owed a little over 125k. My payment on a 30 year re-pay is ~$600 a month. It's not stifling but it's not awesome either. Essentially a car payment every month. Lawyers can start re-pay sooner than I could ( I was 34 when I finished up my training) but realistically I make more than most starting lawyers.

Rates are around 6%.
 
Student loan interest rates vary greatly depending on when you entered school. Some people got crazy low while only a few years earlier rates were closer to 7%.
 
Found some information on the website that says i may be able to get an 80% refund. This is interesting. Would owe about 23k if i bounced today.
 
Agreed. I don't know what interest rates are today but when I finished up med school rates were in the 3's. I owed a little over 125k. My payment on a 30 year re-pay is ~$600 a month. It's not stifling but it's not awesome either. Essentially a car payment every month. Lawyers can start re-pay sooner than I could ( I was 34 when I finished up my training) but realistically I make more than most starting lawyers.

is there a grace period for MDs while they are in residencies and making 40-50k? or does the repayment period start as soon as you're out and you just have to build up 3-8 years of interest until you're making real doctor money?

Student loan interest rates vary greatly depending on when you entered school. Some people got crazy low while only a few years earlier rates were closer to 7%.

mine ranged between 5% and 8.25%
 
finally paid off my loans last month

buckets!

Such a good feeling, congrats. I made a lump sum payment to clear my loans with deployment money in 2010 when I got back and it was a huge relief to have that payment gone.
 
finally paid off my loans last month

buckets!
montel_money_mutual1.jpg
 
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