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Law School is a sham

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I've said it before on this thread, but anybody in a dual degree program immediately gets axed from my OCI interview resume list at the same time people with awful grades get axed. Two primary reasons: (A) if you don't know with as much certainty as possible that you want to actually be a lawyer, then I'm not hiring you to pay you figure that out; and (B) I'm not going to spend a shit ton of money and time training you for a few years, only to have you jump in house or to the business world when you finally start becoming productive and useful.
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Do you feel the same way about all dual degrees (LLMS, MAs etc.) or just MBAs?
 
Seems lame to penalize someone for more training/education, not sure why you assume someone does it because they don't have clear goals

I do love 2&2's hiring hot takes

Basically you have to be a young, fit, single dude with mediocre aspirations and just a JD with not even a class outside of the mandatory curriculum
 
bojanglefunk said:
Do you feel the same way about all dual degrees (LLMS, MAs etc.) or just MBAs?
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Depends if the fields are related or not. Hiring someone with a tax LLM to be a tax attorney makes perfect sense; as would hiring someone with like a Masters in City Planning to be an administrative or zoning attorney; and obviously someone with a PhD or Masters in a science or computer field to be a patent attorney. Where it gets screwy (and the one I've seen the most) is someone with a Masters in Education. Dude, it's clear you have no idea what you want to do and no idea what you would be in for as a lawyer, you just went to law school because it seemed like a good educational move, please don't waste either of our time.
 
buckets said:
Seems lame to penalize someone for more training/education, not sure why you assume someone does it because they don't have clear goals

I do love 2&2's hiring hot takes

Basically you have to be a young, fit, single dude with mediocre aspirations and just a JD with not even a class outside of the mandatory curriculum
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That would certainly put you at the top of the list. Homely girls can fit the objective as well.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
Aren't homely girls more likely to get pregnant? How else are they going to trick a guy into being with them?
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They might get pregnant as well, but they are more likely to come back afterwards. Homely girls have a chip on their shoulder because of longstanding inferiority complexes, so they will come back because they feel the need to prove themselves as do-it-all women and be able to look down on the hot ones. The hot ones have been coddled all their lives in their bubble of hotness so don't think twice about bailing into stay-at-home yogamilf mode once they get knocked up.
 
buckets said:
I've met many a lawyer that did a jd/mba program and didn't really seem to matter outside of making their profile page on their firm's website look sweet

But in those cases, those guys all chose to be lawyers
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This is pretty true in my experience. Someone at a firm having an MBA doesn't really give them an advantage over someone without one, even in the corporate/transactional world. In-house I could see it being a little different, using it to potentially to move into higher positions, but even then I think it is all situational. Anyone who is legit interested in using their MBA though goes into i-banking instead. And if you do that I don't see what a law degree does to help you since law school doesn't really teach you anything useful/practical about corporate, transactional, securities, or banking laws. If you aren't doing these things as an attorney day-to-day then you don't really know anything - at best you know enough to be a pest and/or cause problems.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
They might get pregnant as well, but they are more likely to come back afterwards. Homely girls have a chip on their shoulder because of longstanding inferiority complexes, so they will come back because they feel the need to prove themselves as do-it-all women and be able to look down on the hot ones. The hot ones have been coddled all their lives in their bubble of hotness so don't think twice about bailing into stay-at-home yogamilf mode once they get knocked up.
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I always kind of wonder if the parents of rich hot chicks get frustrated that their princess who they dropped major coin on getting elite undergraduate and graduate degrees has a career for all of 3-5 years before becoming a stay at home mom, or do they just care about having grandkids?
 
P4nthers11 said:
I always kind of wonder if the parents of rich hot chicks get frustrated that their princess who they dropped major coin on getting elite undergraduate and graduate degrees has a career for all of 3-5 years before becoming a stay at home mom, or do they just care about having grandkids?
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She is not going to find a sugar daddy (and get off the parent's dime) working at McDonald's, so I doubt they care.
 
wfudkn said:
This is pretty true in my experience. Someone at a firm having an MBA doesn't really give them an advantage over someone without one, even in the corporate/transactional world. In-house I could see it being a little different, using it to potentially to move into higher positions, but even then I think it is all situational. Anyone who is legit interested in using their MBA though goes into i-banking instead. And if you do that I don't see what a law degree does to help you since law school doesn't really teach you anything useful/practical about corporate, transactional, securities, or banking laws. If you aren't doing these things as an attorney day-to-day then you don't really know anything - at best you know enough to be a pest and/or cause problems.
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I have a buddy who has a finance undergrad, went and did corporate law for 2 years and THEN lateraled into I-Banking and went in way higher than he would have with just a finance undergrad or an MBA since he had a business background and real work corporate law experience.
 
bojanglefunk said:
I have a buddy who has a finance undergrad, went and did corporate law for 2 years and THEN lateraled into I-Banking and went in way higher than he would have with just a finance undergrad or an MBA since he had a business background and real work corporate law experience.
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I could see that being helpful to him. With 2 years of experience that at least would give him some baseline knowledge that others might not appreciate.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I would say only if you are not easily frustrated. The IRS has cut back on a lot of their knowledgeable resolution staff, so you are basically dealing with high school graduates who do not understand much of anything about the tax code until you either (a) get to the Appeals level so are dealing primarily with the Ogden, Utah center, or (b) are lucky enough to have the matter transfered to your local metro office so while you may not be dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed, at least you are dealing with one consistent person and their supervisors. Anything coming out of Philadelphia, Cincinnati, or Memphis is a fucking trainwreck, they just ell you what the "system" tells them and have no ability/authority to think for themselves.
The other thing about tax controversy work is that you need to get really good about estimating the total long-term amount of your fees and getting everything up front from almost everyone but extremely well-heeled potential clients. Otherwise, if they didn't pay the IRS, chances are they aren't going to pay you.
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Trenton, NJ is where I get the majority of my trainwrecks. I am dealing with two agents (we have 4 gift tax years under audit and they assigned 2 to one agent and 2 to another - brilliant) from up there and we first got pulled for audit on '09 and '10 in 2012. We've extended the statute a number of times and finally just said give us a 90 day letter a few weeks ago, since it is clearly going no where. It is frustrating as hell, but I kind of like getting to fight every now and then. I couldn't just do controversy work though - I like the planning side too much.
 
Who has taken bar exams for multiple states? I took SC in July (and passed) and I am currently sitting at home on a Friday night to study for the NC bar. Why am I doing this to myself???
 
RidingDeac said:
Who has taken bar exams for multiple states? I took SC in July (and passed) and I am currently sitting at home on a Friday night to study for the NC bar. Why am I doing this to myself???
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I took NY and FL and am likely taking at least one more. Could get my firm to pay for GA but am thinking about NC or VA.
 
I'm thinking about taking Massachusetts but I dont know how I can study for a bar exam without my firm knowing, bill my necessary hours, and pass.
 
RidingDeac said:
Who has taken bar exams for multiple states? I took SC in July (and passed) and I am currently sitting at home on a Friday night to study for the NC bar. Why am I doing this to myself???
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GA and FL. Definitely not taking any more. May waive into NC at some point though.

When I took FL, I didn't tell my boss until maybe 3 weeks before (and I really only did that because I was taking a week of vacation to do it), which was about the same time I started studying. And by studying, I mean reading through the FL BarBri outlines once and doing about an hour/hour and a half of MBE questions before I went in to the office or after I got home. Looking back on it, either 1) FL was way easier than GA, 2) I was very lucky to pass FL, or 3) I studied way, way, way too much for GA. Two and three are both probably true, but for your first one, when your job is essentially riding on it (no matter what they tell you), you can't be too careful.
 
WFfb115 said:
I'm thinking about taking Massachusetts but I dont know how I can study for a bar exam without my firm knowing, bill my necessary hours, and pass.
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Depends on the exam, but some states have an employment verification requirement and will contact your employer to confirm. I got jammed up and had to tell my employer that I was taking the FL bar. It was not fun.
 
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