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Law School is a sham

RidingDeac said:
Who has taken bar exams for multiple states? I took SC in July (and passed) and I am currently sitting at home on a Friday night to study for the NC bar. Why am I doing this to myself???
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I have taken both the SC ('93) and NC bars. Coming straight out of law school with high debt and all the pressures not to fail, South Carolina seemed like it was incredibly difficult. I took NC 2.5 years later. That test seemed easy in comparison (to the point that I was worried I missed something because it seemed so easy). At least to me, and at the time, South Carolina tested on picky points of state law. NC was more straightforward. But there is probably a confidence factor with having taken and passed one bar exam that helps on the other, as well. (Both tests were a long time ago, so maybe none of this applies.) Best of luck.

Also, keep studying. Having both licenses has been very helpful to me over the years.
 
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AMCDeac said:
I have taken both the SC ('93) and NC bars. Coming straight out of law school with high debt and all the pressures not to fail, South Carolina seemed like it was incredibly difficult. I took NC 2.5 years later. That test seemed easy in comparison (to the point that I was worried I missed something because it seemed so easy). At least to me, and at the time, South Carolina tested on picky points of state law. NC was more straightforward. But there is probably a confidence factor with having taken and passed one bar exam that helps on the other, as well. (Both tests were a long time ago, so maybe none of this applies.) Best of luck.

Also, keep studying. Having both licenses has been very helpful to me over the years.
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My wife would say the exact same thing. Passed SC in '11 and NC in '12. Said she thought SC was much harder and NC was easier, but also admits that she was super stressed about passing SC because it was her first and wasn't too worried (relative to SC) about passing NC so there was much less stress and worry and that could've made it seem easier.
 
Fortunately, if I take GA they have an attorney's exam so there is no MBE.
 
I passed one bar exam and swore I wouldn't move until I could waive in or I'd just change careers.
 
FWIW, you can also be admitted as a full member to the USDC for the Eastern District of TN without being a member of the TN bar. Maybe there are others, but it seems to me that every other USDC I have looked at requires you to be a member of the state bar for the location of the court, or go pro hac vice.
 
AMCDeac said:
I have taken both the SC ('93) and NC bars. Coming straight out of law school with high debt and all the pressures not to fail, South Carolina seemed like it was incredibly difficult. I took NC 2.5 years later. That test seemed easy in comparison (to the point that I was worried I missed something because it seemed so easy). At least to me, and at the time, South Carolina tested on picky points of state law. NC was more straightforward. But there is probably a confidence factor with having taken and passed one bar exam that helps on the other, as well. (Both tests were a long time ago, so maybe none of this applies.) Best of luck.

Also, keep studying. Having both licenses has been very helpful to me over the years.
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Baconwfu said:
My wife would say the exact same thing. Passed SC in '11 and NC in '12. Said she thought SC was much harder and NC was easier, but also admits that she was super stressed about passing SC because it was her first and wasn't too worried (relative to SC) about passing NC so there was much less stress and worry and that could've made it seem easier.
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This helps a lot. I am nervous about NC being harder than SC because it seems like a lot more information and everything is mixed together.
 
Fwiw the sc bar has, normally, a bar passage rate that's around 5% higher for first time test takers than nc.
 
Knight said:
Isn't NC's 1st time passage rate something like 68%?
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No, I believe that it's closer to 75% as of recently.

And, Elon and Charlotte, go ahead and close up shop and call it a day. EDIT: I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the Duke number, but only 24 test takers? They really do flock out of NC.

Passing rate of first-time test takers on the 2014 July bar exam

UNC: 87% (138 of 159)
Campbell: 86% (119 of 139)
Wake Forest: 79% (75 of 95)
Duke: 79% (19 of 24)
N.C. Central: 76% (72 of 95)
Elon: 69% (49 of 71)
Charlotte Law School: 56% (103 of 184)

NC Total: 75% (575 of 767)

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2014/09/04/unc-law-edges-campbell-duke-and-wake-in-bar.html
 
Knight said:
Holy hell, those numbers for MSD are atrocious. Actually, no single school dominated as in past years. Me thinks that a few curve balls were thrown in 2014.
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I believe they have lowered the overall passage rate in NC over the past few years. My class from Campbell had a 95% passage rate in 2012.
 
A former law school classmate of mine "stepped down" as a professor at Charlotte- it appears that the for-profits are starting to get the shit beat out of them due to low application #s. I feel for the classmate personally, but damn, that is good for the profession as a whole.
 
deacondamo said:
lol, what is wearing in his mugshot? Did he just wear a blanket to try and pick up hookers?
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Apparently in TX it is practice to cover inmates with a towel when taking mugshots so that in a lineup everybody appears to be attired the same way.
 
Knight said:
Holy hell, those numbers for MSD are atrocious. Actually, no single school dominated as in past years. Me thinks that a few curve balls were thrown in 2014.
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Wake has been down for the last few years. My class was right at 81% I believe. Unlike Campbell and UNC, Wake doesn't really teach for the NC bar. I only had a one or two classes that I felt like really focused on what the NC law was (Sales with Nickles was great.) I felt like Wake's mindset was that if you were good enough to get in, you could take a bar class after graduation and pass the bar, so there were no prep classes during the year or anything like that, which I know they do at other schools.
 
wakelaw13 said:
Wake has been down for the last few years. My class was right at 81% I believe. Unlike Campbell and UNC, Wake doesn't really teach for the NC bar. I only had a one or two classes that I felt like really focused on what the NC law was (Sales with Nickles was great.) I felt like Wake's mindset was that if you were good enough to get in, you could take a bar class after graduation and pass the bar, so there were no prep classes during the year or anything like that, which I know they do at other schools.
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I don't think UNC does TOO much of that either. I do know Campbell does and we even got a hold of the bar outline they provide to students, which was helpful.

The number of Duke students staying in NC is actually up from when I was there. I think we had like 18 in 2011. The passage rate is also always interesting because a large percentage of the Duke students who stay in NC are towards the bottom of the class and are the folks still looking for jobs. It think the school's overall rate is around 95%, but the NC one is always low.
 
Trying to understand what the downside is to "teach to the bar". Why would a school not want to teach in a way that it's professionals could practice law in their chosen state upon graduation? It comes across as sour grapes and a way to explain away a lower pass rate. What am I missing? No pass, no work. Seems logical that passing would be important.
 
bojanglefunk said:
I don't think UNC does TOO much of that either. I do know Campbell does and we even got a hold of the bar outline they provide to students, which was helpful.

The number of Duke students staying in NC is actually up from when I was there. I think we had like 18 in 2011. The passage rate is also always interesting because a large percentage of the Duke students who stay in NC are towards the bottom of the class and are the folks still looking for jobs. It think the school's overall rate is around 95%, but the NC one is always low.
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I don't think Campbell has a bar outline, or if they do they certainly didn't distribute it to my class. They just require their students to take more classes in subjects that are tested on the bar exam. They also have an additional essay writing prep class during the summer that involves taking a bunch of practice essays and is very helpful, but I think 2011 was the first year that was offered. One firm I interviewed with in Greensboro told me that Elon has a for-credit bar prep class that it 's students are required to take.
 
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