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Lectro was RIGHT--post1626--(climate related)

Excerpted ^ for midgets

In a Feb. 16 speech in Indonesia, Secretary of State John Kerry assailed climate-change skeptics as members of the "Flat Earth Society" for doubting the reality of catastrophic climate change. He said, "We should not allow a tiny minority of shoddy scientists" and "extreme ideologues to compete with scientific facts."
But who are the Flat Earthers, and who is ignoring the scientific facts? In ancient times, the notion of a flat Earth was the scientific consensus, and it was only a minority who dared question this belief. We are among today's scientists who are skeptical about the so-called consensus on climate change. Does that make us modern-day Flat Earthers, as Mr. Kerry suggests, or are we among those who defy the prevailing wisdom to declare that the world is round?
 
Cont.

Most of us who are skeptical about the dangers of climate change actually embrace many of the facts that people like Bill Nye, the ubiquitous TV "science guy," say we ignore. The two fundamental facts are that carbon-dioxide levels in the atmosphere have increased due to the burning of fossil fuels, and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is a greenhouse gas, trapping heat before it can escape into space.
What is not a known fact is by how much the Earth's atmosphere will warm in response to this added carbon dioxide. The warming numbers most commonly advanced are created by climate computer models built almost entirely by scientists who believe in catastrophic global warming. The rate of warming forecast by these models depends on many assumptions and engineering to replicate a complex world in tractable terms, such as how water vapor and clouds will react to the direct heat added by carbon dioxide or the rate of heat uptake, or absorption, by the oceans.
 
^

We might forgive these modelers if their forecasts had not been so consistently and spectacularly wrong. From the beginning of climate modeling in the 1980s, these forecasts have, on average, always overstated the degree to which the Earth is warming compared with what we see in the real climate.
For instance, in 1994 we published an article in the journal Nature showing that the actual global temperature trend was "one-quarter of the magnitude of climate model results." As the nearby graph shows, the disparity between the predicted temperature increases and real-world evidence has only grown in the past 20 years.
 
^

When the failure of its predictions become clear, the modeling industry always comes back with new models that soften their previous warming forecasts, claiming, for instance, that an unexpected increase in the human use of aerosols had skewed the results. After these changes, the models tended to agree better with the actual numbers that came in—but the forecasts for future temperatures have continued to be too warm.
The modelers insist that they are unlucky because natural temperature variability is masking the real warming. They might be right, but when a batter goes 0 for 10, he's better off questioning his swing than blaming the umpire.
 
Lectro, I bet you were a fiend at chain emails sent to relatives back in the day. I bet you brought the AOL servers to their knees many times with ASCII goodness.
 
Well said....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-the-myth-of-settled-science/2014/02/20/c1f8d994-9a75-11e3-b931-0204122c514b_story.html

The myth of ‘settled science’

By Charles Krauthammer, Published: February 20 E-mail the writer

I repeat: I’m not a global warming believer. I’m not a global warming denier. I’ve long believed that it cannot be good for humanity to be spewing tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. I also believe that those scientists who pretend to know exactly what this will cause in 20, 30 or 50 years are white-coated propagandists.

“The debate is settled,” asserted propagandist in chief Barack Obama in his latest State of the Union address. “Climate change is a fact.” Really? There is nothing more anti-scientific than the very idea that science is settled, static, impervious to challenge. Take a non-climate example. It was long assumed that mammograms help reduce breast cancer deaths. This fact was so settled that Obamacare requires every insurance plan to offer mammograms (for free, no less) or be subject to termination.

Now we learn from a massive randomized study — 90,000 women followed for 25 years — that mammograms may have no effect on breast cancer deaths. Indeed, one out of five of those diagnosed by mammogram receives unnecessary radiation, chemo or surgery.

So much for settledness. And climate is less well understood than breast cancer. If climate science is settled, why do its predictions keep changing? And how is it that the great physicist Freeman Dyson, who did some climate research in the late 1970s, thinks today’s climate-change Cassandras are hopelessly mistaken?

They deal with the fluid dynamics of the atmosphere and oceans, argues Dyson, ignoring the effect of biology, i.e., vegetation and topsoil. Further, their predictions rest on models they fall in love with: “You sit in front of a computer screen for 10 years and you start to think of your model as being real.” Not surprisingly, these models have been “consistently and spectacularly wrong” in their predictions, write atmospheric scientists Richard McNider and John Christy — and always, amazingly, in the same direction.

Settled? Even Britain’s national weather service concedes there’s been no change — delicately called a “pause” — in global temperature in 15 years. If even the raw data is recalcitrant, let alone the assumptions and underlying models, how settled is the science?

But even worse than the pretense of settledness is the cynical attribution of any politically convenient natural disaster to climate change, a clever term that allows you to attribute anything — warming and cooling, drought and flood — to man’s sinful carbon burning.

Accordingly, Obama ostentatiously visited drought-stricken California last Friday. Surprise! He blamed climate change. Here even the New York Times gagged, pointing out that far from being supported by the evidence, “the most recent computer projections suggest that as the world warms, California should get wetter, not drier, in the winter.”

How inconvenient. But we’ve been here before. Hurricane Sandy was made the poster child for the alleged increased frequency and strength of “extreme weather events” like hurricanes.

Nonsense. Sandy wasn’t even a hurricane when it hit the United States. Indeed, in all of 2012, only a single hurricane made U.S. landfall . And 2013 saw the fewest Atlantic hurricanes in 30 years. In fact, in the last half-century, one-third fewer major hurricanes have hit the United States than in the previous half-century.

Similarly tornadoes. Every time one hits, the climate-change commentary begins. Yet last year saw the fewest in a quarter-century. And the last 30 years — of presumed global warming — has seen a 30 percent decrease in extreme tornado activity (F3 and above) versus the previous 30 years.

None of this is dispositive. It doesn’t settle the issue. But that’s the point. It mocks the very notion of settled science, which is nothing but a crude attempt to silence critics and delegitimize debate. As does the term “denier” — an echo of Holocaust denial, contemptibly suggesting the malevolent rejection of an established historical truth.

Climate-change proponents have made their cause a matter of fealty and faith. For folks who pretend to be brave carriers of the scientific ethic, there’s more than a tinge of religion in their jeremiads. If you whore after other gods, the Bible tells us, “the Lord’s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit” (Deuteronomy 11).

Sounds like California. Except that today there’s a new god, the Earth Mother. And a new set of sins — burning coal and driving a fully equipped F-150.

But whoring is whoring, and the gods must be appeased. So if California burns, you send your high priest (in carbon -belching Air Force One, but never mind) to the bone-dry land to offer up, on behalf of the repentant congregation, a $1 billion burnt offering called a “climate resilience fund.”

Ah, settled science in action.
 
conservative posters agree with krauthammer column skeptical of science? more surprises
 
so your plan is to attack the messenger and provide no counter-argument?

yep, pretty much. people who actually know something about science know that it's ever changing already, and that questions are constantly being asked about existing and new work. this "message" is just for conservatives to stand around and congratulate themselves about. "herrr, new research says something different than old research so that means we should discount and actively fight the things we don't like until it meets the unattainable bar of sticking my fingers in the fucking holes"

but yeah, great job, chuck, for comparing holocaust denial and climate change denial
 
"Now we learn from a massive randomized study — 90,000 women followed for 25 years — that mammograms may have no effect on breast cancer deaths."

That's not exactly what the study found.

Nothing in science is ever really settled, so I wish they'd stop using this term.

And he was doing ok until he started to equate California's drought with Deuteronomy and insinuating everyone who thinks climate change is occurring is in some sort of brainwashed Holocaust denying Pagan cult. That's when I forget about the first 90% of the article which wasn't that bad.
 
"a MASSIVE randomized study" doesn't equate to 0.000514% of the female population of the US alone btw Charles.
 
conservative posters agree with krauthammer column skeptical of science? more surprises

To be fair, I didn't interpret his column as 'skeptical of science'.. rather, I believe he pushed back on 'white-coated propagandists' using science to advance a political agenda (said agenda being.. let's be honest.. gimme more money). Granted I didn't follow so well when he went Lenox on us with Deuteronomy and whores flying Air Force One... or something.. but hey, allow the man to throw a little red meat to the right without discounting the whole column.
 
To be fair, I didn't interpret his column as 'skeptical of science'.. rather, I believe he pushed back on 'white-coated propagandists' using science to advance a political agenda (said agenda being.. let's be honest.. gimme more money). Granted I didn't follow so well when he went Lenox on us with Deuteronomy and whores flying Air Force One... or something.. but hey, allow the man to throw a little red meat to the right without discounting the whole column.

That's good shit, Bea.
 
yep, pretty much. people who actually know something about science know that it's ever changing already, and that questions are constantly being asked about existing and new work. this "message" is just for conservatives to stand around and congratulate themselves about. "herrr, new research says something different than old research so that means we should discount and actively fight the things we don't like until it meets the unattainable bar of sticking my fingers in the fucking holes"
So is the science settled or not? All you've done on this thread is bash anyone who points out the science is changing away from CO2 which is what is happening and now you seem to be upset with someone who doesn't believe the science is changing. Which is it? You seem to be the one not liking where the science is going, not Chuck.
 
lol ok, first of all science is not "changing away from CO2" despite your endless attempts to discredit modeling. I don't know why i keep coming back to this black hole, because the bottom line is here is that there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of how scientific research is done, and shockingly, you, a purported researcher is one of the most vocal parties.

Being skeptical of existing research is fundamental to research, but believing in a "science mafia" or some kind of conspiracy is just partisan, cynical, and mostly childish. I bash people who post links to conservative and/or big energy blog posts that cherry pick or misinterpret (deliberately or not) studies.
 
lol ok, first of all science is not "changing away from CO2" despite your endless attempts to discredit modeling. I don't know why i keep coming back to this black hole, because the bottom line is here is that there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of how scientific research is done, and shockingly, you, a purported researcher is one of the most vocal parties.

Being skeptical of existing research is fundamental to research, but believing in a "science mafia" or some kind of conspiracy is just partisan, cynical, and mostly childish. I bash people who post links to conservative and/or big energy blog posts that cherry pick or misinterpret (deliberately or not) studies.

Just let it go Captain.
 
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