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Libertarians On the Rise

deacphan said:
southern democrats ya donk. that isnt every democrat.
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You think southern Dems led the fight for marriage equality? Amendment 1 in NC would disagree. Have no evidence but my hunch is that southern Dems are more opposed to gay marriage than northern Pubs.

Edit

Never mind...read more carefully and I think you are saying southern Dems are the ones against, no?
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
You think southern Dems led the fight for marriage equality? Amendment 1 in NC would disagree. Have no evidence but my hunch is that southern Dems are more opposed to gay marriage than northern Pubs.
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i was saying southern dems were the dems that didnt fight for it.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
You think southern Dems led the fight for marriage equality? Amendment 1 in NC would disagree. Have no evidence but my hunch is that southern Dems are more opposed to gay marriage than northern Pubs.
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Solid reading comprehension fail there buddy. He is saying Southern Democrats would be the type of Democrat opposed to same-sex marriage which prevented it from being a focused platform issue of the national party until more recently. Irrelevant of that, you still haven't explained why it is acceptable to characterize all Democrats beliefs based upon the "national platform" but each individual Libertarian gets to determine what they believe for themselves and are not held accountable to any ideas put forth by the "national" Libertarians. That is the only thing you have used to support your absurd notion that Libs have LED the charge on these issues. Sgt has the right interpretation. Libs have helped push these forward and their support of the platforms have made them stronger but they didn't drive it. You act as those Democrats would all be puritanical, War on Drugs-loving, gay-hating people if not for the kind influence of Libertarians.
 
Sgt Hulka said:
I don't know where these figures come from, but I don't know a single libertarian who is against Same Sex Marriage. Most are agnostic, some are "activists." There is no way "all americans" outnumber libertarians in their view of same sex marriage.
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I think you need to learn more about people who identify as libertarians. This is a good thread for you.
 
Deacon923 said:
looks like the libertarian solution to groundwater pollution just got a little tougher in WV.

http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/01/company-involved-west-virginia-chemical-spill-files-bankruptcy/357142/

Good luck squeezing blood out of that bankrupt turnip, West Virginians.
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But DeacMan just told us that private citizens would never get screwed over by companies in light of fewer regulations because civil lawsuits would take care of ensuring said citizens were adequately compensated.
 
bigdoublezero said:
I think you need to learn more about people who identify as libertarians. This is a good thread for you.
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Thanks. However, I don't vote for dems/pub unless there is no libertarian alternative. What people call themselves is none of my concern, it is how they act. I am sure BKF considers himself a good democrat, yet he advocates Socialist/communist principles. Does that mean that you need to embrace choking of college athletes and a $1mil income limit?
 
BigTreeDeac said:
But DeacMan just told us that private citizens would never get screwed over by companies in light of fewer regulations because civil lawsuits would take care of ensuring said citizens were adequately compensated.
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And this is the kind of insanity I have been tired of....just because libertarianism does not cure all of societies ills, it is flawed. Hey, here is a clue...over regulation does nothing to catch people before the fact...it can punish them, but so can laws enacted by libertarians. The Dems/Pubs have been in power for hundreds of years, yet this spill happens.
 
BigTreeDeac said:
Solid reading comprehension fail there buddy. He is saying Southern Democrats would be the type of Democrat opposed to same-sex marriage which prevented it from being a focused platform issue of the national party until more recently. Irrelevant of that, you still haven't explained why it is acceptable to characterize all Democrats beliefs based upon the "national platform" but each individual Libertarian gets to determine what they believe for themselves and are not held accountable to any ideas put forth by the "national" Libertarians. That is the only thing you have used to support your absurd notion that Libs have LED the charge on these issues. Sgt has the right interpretation. Libs have helped push these forward and their support of the platforms have made them stronger but they didn't drive it. You act as those Democrats would all be puritanical, War on Drugs-loving, gay-hating people if not for the kind influence of Libertarians.
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I missed where I made the "absurd notion that Libs have LED the charge on these issues. Could you find that quote for me? If not, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.
 
Sgt Hulka said:
And this is the kind of insanity I have been tired of....just because libertarianism does not cure all of societies ills, it is flawed. Hey, here is a clue...over regulation does nothing to catch people before the fact...it can punish them, but so can laws enacted by libertarians. The Dems/Pubs have been in power for hundreds of years, yet this spill happens.
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And before the enactment of environmental protection laws in the 60s, they happened a lot more often, and were often committed on purpose because proper disposal was too expensive. The government itself was just as guilty of this as private industry, with the extra added insult of sovereign immunity when anyone tried to call it to account for its pollution. See Camp LeJeune. Enacting environmental laws and regulations has greatly improved the air and water quality in this country.

Environmental law is one of the areas where I think libertarian solutions just don't work. The temptation to pollute and despoil the commons for short-term profit is way too strong, especially when the decision-makers can put a limited-liability entity between themselves and the consequences.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
I missed where I made the "absurd notion that Libs have LED the charge on these issues. Could you find that quote for me? If not, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.
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When you respond to this:

"The premise that marriage equality, pot, etc., were initiated or led by libertarians into the mainstream is simply not true."

With this:

"Then who has led it?"

You are implying that you believe Libertarians HAVE led it
 
BeachBumDeac said:
When you respond to this:

"The premise that marriage equality, pot, etc., were initiated or led by libertarians into the mainstream is simply not true."

With this:

"Then who has led it?"

You are implying that you believe Libertarians HAVE led it
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You inferred.
 
Perhaps but it was the wrong inference as I stated several other times that I don't think Libertarians led the fight.

This thread had made its way in to useless land.
 
RJKarl said:
The premise that marriage equality, pot, etc., were initiated or led by libertarians into the mainstream is simply not true. Libertarians are a tiny, non-consequential group. They aren't the vanguard creating or leading these changes.
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SkinsNDeacs said:
Then who has led it? Until very recently (after the horse was our of the stable) both mainstream parties were against marriage equality and drug legalization.
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SkinsNDeacs said:
I missed where I made the "absurd notion that Libs have LED the charge on these issues. Could you find that quote for me? If not, maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.
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Seriously? So you say neither mainstream party has led the charge and respond with "Then who led it?" to a statement that Libertarians did not lead the charge. And you are going to act like you did not make the assertion that Libertarians led the charge? Solid work
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
That may be true but you can't credit the party with that. Their platform until last year was anti marriage equality.
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SkinsNDeacs said:
Anti marriage equality? Yes...until last year. Unless I am mistaken (absolutely possible).
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SkinsNDeacs said:
No doubt the Republicans get no points for the move towards marriage equality. But it is not as if the Dems have been long supporters of gay marriage on the national level. Sure, they are light years ahead of the neanderthals in the GOP but that does not make them champions of gay marriage.

Between the 3 Libertarians have a much more solid pro marriage equality record than the two major parties combined. I don't know if that means they did any leading or not but they were right about the issue long before Democrats.
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SkinsNDeacs said:
I feel like I am getting into an argument and I don't even know what I am arguing about :)

No, I don't think the Democratic Party deserves credit for the advancement of gay marriage because the national party was not in support of it until the public shifted its opinion. You can bet your last dollar that if the public was still overwhelmingly against gay marriage so would the Democratic Party. Sure, there was far more support for marriage equality inside the Democratic Party (and those individuals deserve credit) but the national party was late to the parade. Who does deserve the credit? Young people, IMO. It is because younger people that don't care about the issue are starting to out number the old dying people that do that the issue has gained steam. The train had left the station when the national Democratic Party jumped on.
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SkinsNDeacs said:
Perhaps but it was the wrong inference as I stated several other times that I don't think Libertarians led the fight.

This thread had made its way in to useless land.
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Where did you say Libertarians "did not lead"?. The closest you came is "I don't know if that means they did any leading" which neither represents saying it once let alone several time. And this was of course surrounded by your consistent idea that neither Pubs nor Dems get credit for the shift in policy. So if we are discussing 3 political parties and you deny credit to two, what political movement do you think did the leading? It does not take much inference or logic to deduce that you credit Libertarians (more than any other political group) for leading the charge. If you don't want people to make wrong inferences, you shouldn't make it so easy for that inference to be made. Or you could clearly state your ideas. Or maybe you just got caught and can't admit. Take your pick
 
This is such a dumb conversation but I'll leave it with this. It is possible to have something happen in this country without a political party leading the way.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
This is such a dumb conversation but I'll leave it with this. It is possible to have something happen in this country without a political party leading the way.
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Nobody is saying that the national Democratic Party led the charge on this issue. They are saying that it was mostly people who identify as Democrats who did lead the charge.
 
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