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Lol at the new WakeWill campaign

DistrictDeacon said:
The real situation is that Wake is never going to consistently break the into the top 20. Which is fine. For a smaller school with limited graduate programs and little national recognition, 25-30 is pretty good. But it becomes very hard to justify $65k for a school that doesn't have a national reputation. Especially if that experience is going to be watered down by a bunch of under-qualified rich kids.
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I can't speak to this at all, but does Wake not have a national reputation?

I have lived in NC my entire life, so I have no context on that.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I can't speak to this at all, but does Wake not have a national reputation?

I have lived in NC my entire life, so I have no context on that.
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Not as good as you think. Wake Forest has pockets nationally where certain companies recruit specifically from certain schools which is good for Wake. However, if you asked a random person in Idaho about Wake Forest they probably wouldn't know.

Our strongest reputation lies in the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic. UNC and Duke are national brands and NCSU while regional overall has a strong national name brand in agriculture and engineering.
 
RaleighTriad said:
Not as good as you think. Wake Forest has pockets nationally where certain companies recruit specifically from certain schools which is good for Wake. However, if you asked a random person in Idaho about Wake Forest they probably wouldn't know.

Our strongest reputation lies in the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic. UNC and Duke are national brands and NCSU while regional overall has a strong national name brand in agriculture and engineering.
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Funny you should mention Idaho. We were vacationing in the Pacific NW in the fall and stayed at a B&B in Idaho one night. At breakfast we were chatting with a man in his 60s who grew up in Minnesota and both of his sisters attended Wake back in the 70s. The only time he'd ever been to North Carolina was for his sisters' graduations. Small world...and does go to show that Wake's name has had more of a national following for longer than we give it credit.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I can't speak to this at all, but does Wake not have a national reputation?

I have lived in NC my entire life, so I have no context on that.
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Grew up in NJ and all the people that you would want to associate yourself with knew about Wake (mostly just the broad strokes like how it's a good school, athletics, etc., but many know more than that). It was the same when I worked in Detroit after graduating. People might not know exactly where it is, but, for the most part, they knew it was a school with a strong academic reputation in the south. Living in the midwest, I never got the Lake Forest confusion. That never happened. I actually worked with a Lake Forest grad and when she told people where she went to school they would default to Wake Forest.

Once you get out of the south, I think you would be surprised at how many people can't locate the southern private schools unless they follow sports. I met a bunch of people when I was in Michigan who didn't follow sports and didn't know that Duke was in NC. In all fairness, a lot of Duke fans probably don't know that the school is in NC either.

That's my anecdotal #hottake.
 
Rafi said:
I disagree that the link between Wake and Winston-Salem has been burned, and I think a lot of the discussion on here reflects selective memory. A few examples of Wake and the community:

- You think Wake football attendance was better in the 80s and 90s? Unfortunately I can't find many box scores from back then, but here are some from 1997 (the earliest year I could quickly find). http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/97review/schedule.html You'll notice that we drew 22,000 for GT and 24,000 for NCSU at the beginning of the year. Despite having several down seasons, Wake football has averaged 28,000 fans at home games the last several years. Here are the numbers http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-football-attendance I think it's pretty clear that football attendance in the past several decades was certainly not higher than it is now.
- Two years ago Wake Forest formalized a relationship with Twin City Soccer, the largest youth soccer program in the Triad. Thousands of kids attend Wake soccer games now each fall. It's completely different than it was in the 1990s. In fact, Wake Forest had the highest college soccer attendance in the country this past season. Here's a great video from 2 seasons ago to give you an idea of the atmosphere if you haven't been https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imTQUu6gIwk
- The Skip Prosser Literacy Program has been extremely successful for 4th graders across Forsyth County, with Wake basketball players reading in schools in Winston-Salem and kids recognized at halftime of a Wake basketball game.
- The last two years the women's basketball team has had school day, where they play a game during the day and elementary school students attend. They shattered an attendance record this year with 8,500 students in attendance.

I could go on. Living in Winston, I don't see this burned bridge. Yes, men's basketball attendance is down, but that's because we've been bad for several years. Nothing more, nothing less.
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You're not understanding the gist of what is being debated here. In fact, your myopic responses are outstanding examples of exactly why Wake has lost its way. Absolutely tone-deaf to the local community. Revenue sports absolutely is a bridge to the larger surrounding community. You're out of your damn mind if you don't think it is key. But, apparently it's your job to be a PR machine for Wake. So, carry on and good luck with that.
 
coredeac said:
You're not understanding the gist of what is being debated here. In fact, your myopic responses are outstanding examples of exactly why Wake has lost its way. Absolutely tone-deaf to the local community. Revenue sports absolutely is a bridge to the larger surrounding community. You're out of your damn mind if you don't think it is key. But, apparently it's your job to be a PR machine for Wake. So, carry on and good luck with that.
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I absolutely agree that Wake sports are a bridge to the surrounding community. That's why I provided 4 examples of Wake sports serving as a bridge to the surrounding community.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I can't speak to this at all, but does Wake not have a national reputation?

I have lived in NC my entire life, so I have no context on that.
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It depends on what you mean by reputation. Your average American probably does not know Wake Forest in the way that they know Duke, Stanford, or the Ivies. In academic communities, it's been my experience that Wake has a decent enough reputation (similar as well in hiring communities).

That said, outside of academia, I think even those who are aware of WFU don't really know much about it, i.e. student pop, Baptist origins, tuition costs, etc.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The real situation is that Wake is never going to consistently break the into the top 20. Which is fine. For a smaller school with limited graduate programs and little national recognition, 25-30 is pretty good. But it becomes very hard to justify $65k for a school that doesn't have a national reputation. Especially if that experience is going to be watered down by a bunch of under-qualified rich kids.
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There are schools with a fraction of the national reputation of Wake Forest with comparable tuition. Tough to justify ? Sure. But supported by the market ? Absolutely.
 
CantStandYa said:
That said, outside of academia, I think even those who are aware of WFU don't really know much about it, i.e. student pop, Baptist origins, tuition costs, etc.
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I don't think that is really much different than most schools - how many random people outside of academia know that Duke and Vanderbilt have Methodist origins or what tuition costs at Stanford?
 
BiffTannen said:
There are schools with a fraction of the national reputation of Wake Forest with comparable tuition. Tough to justify ? Sure. But supported by the market ? Absolutely.
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Here are the 20 most expensive colleges (Wake is 76):

1. Sarah Lawrence College 65,480
2. Harvey Mudd College 64,427
3. New York University 63,472
4. Columbia University 63,440
5. University of Chicago 62,458
6. Claremont McKenna College 62,215
7. Fordham University - Lincoln Center 62,192
8. Bard College 62,012
9. Dartmouth College 61,947
10. Scripps College 61,940
11. Oberlin College 61,788
12. Trinity College (CT) 61,756
13. Pitzer College 61,750
14. Bard College at Simon's Rock 61,735
15. Northwestern University 61,640
16. University of Southern California 61,614
17. Haverford College 61,564
18. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 61,529
19. Fordham University - Rose Hill 61,472
20. Drexel University 61,383
 
If you only consider the non-Ivy schools ranked above us that don't have a city/state in the name, you're left with Stanford, Duke, Hopkins, Northwestern, Vandy, Wash U (although St. Louis is attached to the name), Rice, Emory, ND, Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon, and Tufts. Take out Stanford, ND, Georgetown, and maybe Duke, and I would bet that the average person on the street couldn't tell you what state most of those schools are in.
 
BiffTannen said:
There are schools with a fraction of the national reputation of Wake Forest with comparable tuition. Tough to justify ? Sure. But supported by the market ? Absolutely.
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A fool and his money are soon part.
 
Rafi said:
I put this in a previous post, but the number of applicants from North Carolina has increased 52%. I'm not sure the exact time frame for that, but I provided the link in the previous post.

This link http://admissions.wfu.edu/campus-life/diversity/ suggests that economic diversity has increased 143% from 2007 to 2012, and this is the second largest increase amongst all national universities during this time period. I'm not certain how this is calculated, but I think it might be based on the number of Pell grants.
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Your link doesn't say any of that. Also, my kids aren't eligible for a Pell Grant.

jimjenkdeac said:
I think the post about athletics being a "bridge to the community" is excellent. I would however go one step further and say that the estimate that 90% of the region can't afford the 65k to send their kids to wake as low. It's probably more like 95-98%. Wake has boxed itself in a corner now and it can only take in kids from super rich families who can afford it. There is nothing good about that. I think the founding fathers at wake would be dismayed and highly disappointed. That embarrassing ridiculous fundraising email only illustrates how far this once great institution has fallen
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WFU Lurker said:
Already addressed and found to be false:

Not really.

I was in the class of 2012. The last SAT required class. Over the next three classes (which also encompassed the need-blind change), I saw a noticeable and positive change in student diversity. I know this is anecdotal, and I don't know exactly how those classes measured up academically pre-Wake or how they performed academically at Wake, but all of this chicken little bullshit about Wake Forest becoming a school exclusively for the super rich rang very false to me.

Oh really ?
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Check this out. I'm on a 4-person household with two children who will attend college. We're also well into the top 5% of household income, based on the following:

Based on the Internal Revenue Service’s 2010-2014 database below, here’s how much the top Americans make:

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

- See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how...me-earners-make-percent/#sthash.znU6l8pT.dpuf

Keep in mind that's pre-tax dollars. Assuming that my kids are completely unqualified for financial aid (beyond loans), how is an ever-increasing price tag of over $500,000 affordable for families under the top 2% of household income ? Now, we've invested in 529s to fund most of our kids' educations already, at public school prices, but an extra $30,000 a year per kid is a lot of fucking extra money. Also, they'll overlap two years in college.
 
BiffTannen said:
Your link doesn't say any of that. Also, my kids aren't eligible for a Pell Grant.





Check this out. I'm on a 4-person household with two children who will attend college. We're also well into the top 5% of household income, based on the following:

Based on the Internal Revenue Service’s 2010-2014 database below, here’s how much the top Americans make:

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

- See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how...me-earners-make-percent/#sthash.znU6l8pT.dpuf

Keep in mind that's pre-tax dollars. Assuming that my kids are completely unqualified for financial aid (beyond loans), how is an ever-increasing price tag of over $500,000 affordable for families under the top 2% of household income ? Now, we've invested in 529s to fund most of our kids' educations already, at public school prices, but an extra $30,000 a year per kid is a lot of fucking extra money. Also, they'll overlap two years in college.
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Ok, I clearly should have checked the link.

But my guess is you would qualify for need-based aid beyond loans. Especially for the two years of overlap. But, yes, if anyone is getting screwed it would be you in this situation. Wealthy people can afford it out of pocket. Sub-$100k HHI people are going to get non-loan aid.
 
What is economic diversity? Is it simply the percentage of poors?
 
The fact that Rafi doesn't see that what he is posting is exactly the response that has most people upset is telling. I don't give a shit what the figure says about percentage of North Carolina applicants or that Harvey Mudd costs 64,000 a year. People that went to Wake care that the university is losing its identity, the people in charge are tone deaf, that sports suck, and that the administration is like every other school which is to money grab and bloat. Your comparison to other schools, your number facts don't mean shit because this is the school I went to. This is the school im passionate about and the only fact that matters to me is how the university is being perceived and right now it's poor to very poor.
 
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