Manning Buyout Negotiations Have Begun

[mebanedeac]

I'm not defending DR or Mebane on this, because I don't think we're all that close to reopening, but regardless of who is making the decision and when it gets made, there is always going to be an economic component to this decision. At some point, cities and states are going to start telling people they can leave their home again and some number of people are going to get sick and die as a consequence. There is no scenario where we wait until the risk is 0.0% before we start letting people leave their homes. There is a certain amount of risk that comes with living and enjoying our lives, and we all know and accept that. Its the same reason we don't have a nationwide 20 mph speed limit even though it would save a ton of lives.

Well said.

I am not advocating reopening the country without a significant reduction in the danger. Of course I do not value the economy over lives. However, I am simply stating a fact. I feel for the people living from pay check to pay check whose jobs have been brought to an abrupt halt. I feel also for small businesses that have to fight for a place in the market and may not survive this protracted loss of business. I'm sure all of us feel the same (at least I hope so). There are many casualties to this virus. And the decision to reopen is not likely to be so clear that everyone will agree. Furthermore, there may be some who would like to reduce common wealth to the point that more and more people must depend on the government for basic needs. Not all the laws are altruistic.

 

[Pilchard]

I suspect Manning would be interested in giving up 10% for next year if he remains the HC. This is nice of Clawson, but not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

Agree. Love Clawson, but apparently, Manning has been involved in negotiations with WF to attempt to terminate his contract and with WF altering/reducing the buyout terms. If Manning announces that he is accepting a paycut of any amount, that would simply reduce WF's buyout obligation, but do nothing to get him another year. I want a hoop coaching change too, but I understand why Manning is not in a position to giveback like Dave did.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I suspect Manning would be interested in giving up 10% for next year if he remains the HC. This is nice of Clawson, but not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

First, how is it not apples to apples? Second, why is it if you say you'll take a 10% cut for 1 year to stay, only after Clawson offers it first btw, that you still have good "character" for not taking a 25%-30% cut on your contract to leave... knowing your AD doesn't want you back, top returning player doesn't want you back, vast majority of fanbase doesn't want you back, and you just had the lowest recorded home attendance in over 2 decades? He has an ego problem and is selfish, bottom line.

 

[jaybone]

Why do you think they failed? You think Currie went in to discuss a buyout and wouldn't jump at a 25% discount? Also keep in mind Danny Manning was a multi-millionaire before he ever came to Wake Forest, would be a multi-millionaire without Wake Forest, and has a fuck you pay me because you can't afford to fire me attitude.

I think they partly failed because of COVID-19, but if someone was trying to renege on a contract with me, I'd hold a pretty stubborn position. Your argument that because Manning made $60mil + as an NBA player, he should cut as a deal is preposterous. For one, the VERY REASON that NBA players make $15 mil a year instead of $1 or $2 mil is because of brutal cut throat negotations OVER and OVER again between the players association and ownership. The two weren't always as copacetic as they essentially are today. Manning's career payouts benefited tremendously from hard fought negotiations that preceded him. Don't think he is unaware of that. And you think he should roll over and take a shitty deal because he's sucked as a coach? His NBA history is the very reason he probably BELIEVES he should play hard ball.

But all of it, all of it is speculation.

I will say, Clawson's announcement about 30 minutes ago puts pressure on Danny Manning, something that Currie is not unaware of. It is as telling that the announcements weren't made in tandem than ANYTHING we have heard in weeks. Obviously, Clawson and Manning aren't working in unison on these types of decisions right now. I am not aware they were ever close, but it is pretty interesting that this is Clawson only and not Manning.

Some of your observations based on wisps of information and mostly rumor will start to hold some actual weight if Manning doesn't follow suit within 24-48 hours

 

[jaybone]

Well said.

I am not advocating reopening the country without a significant reduction in the danger. Of course I do not value the economy over lives. However, I am simply stating a fact. I feel for the people living from pay check to pay check whose jobs have been brought to an abrupt halt. I feel also for small businesses that have to fight for a place in the market and may not survive this protracted loss of business. I'm sure all of us feel the same (at least I hope so). There are many casualties to this virus. And the decision to reopen is not likely to be so clear that everyone will agree. Furthermore, there may be some who would like to reduce common wealth to the point that more and more people must depend on the government for basic needs. Not all the laws are altruistic.

The metric would have to be that the hospital bed availability. If some schmo goes out to a bar and gets sick, he better not take my Mom's hospital bed. That is essentially it in a nutshell.

People have to understand that when people go into the hospital for this, they don't come out for three or four weeks unless it is in a body bag. that is the disease. that is why the ventilators are in such short supply. Someone could use a ventilator for three weeks and will most likely still die (like KAT's mom). That is half of the crisis.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I think they partly failed because of COVID-19, but if someone was trying to renege on a contract with me, I'd hold a pretty stubborn position. Your argument that because Manning made $60mil + as an NBA player, he should cut as a deal is preposterous. For one, the VERY REASON that NBA players make $15 mil a year instead of $1 or $2 mil is because of brutal cut throat negotations OVER and OVER again between the players association and ownership. The two weren't always as copacetic as they essentially are today. Manning's career payouts benefited tremendously from hard fought negotiations that preceded him. Don't think he is unaware of that. And you think he should roll over and take a shitty deal because he's sucked as a coach? His NBA history is the very reason he probably BELIEVES he should play hard ball.

But all of it, all of it is speculation.

I will say, Clawson's announcement about 30 minutes ago puts pressure on Danny Manning, something that Currie is not unaware of. It is as telling that the announcements weren't made in tandem than ANYTHING we have heard in weeks. Obviously, Clawson and Manning aren't working in unison on these types of decisions right now. I am not aware they were ever close, but it is pretty interesting that this is Clawson only and not Manning.

Some of your observations based on wisps of information and mostly rumor will start to hold some actual weight if Manning doesn't follow suit within 24-48 hours

Getting paid multi-millions to do nothing, when you are already a multi-millionaire is far from a shitty deal.

 

[Ball State Deac]

First, how is it not apples to apples? Second, why is it if you say you'll take a 10% cut for 1 year to stay, only after Clawson offers it first btw, that you still have good "character" for not taking a 25%-30% cut on your contract to leave... knowing your AD doesn't want you back, top returning player doesn't want you back, vast majority of fanbase doesn't want you back, and you just had the lowest recorded home attendance in over 2 decades? He has an ego problem and is selfish, bottom line.

The situation is different because one is welcomed back with open arms and the other we’d like to fire. I’d take a pretty hard line with an employer on the way out the door than I would if I felt very secure and happy in my job.

 

[Pilchard]

There is no doubt that life would be easier on everyone (particularly those that love WF sports) if Manning just decided to walk away, happy that he had the opportunity to coach WF basketball for 6 years and get paid a lot of money for doing a poor job.

That said, WF signed a (ridiculous) contract extension that guarantees a s-load of cash to DM that WF cannot currently buy its way out of. While essentially everyone agrees that this is going to end badly the longer it goes, so why prolong the agony for another basketball season or two (barf)?

While it's not logical, Manning thinks he can still turn it around and win (not saying he can or will, just that he thinks that he can and will). So, at the end of the day, don't think this is really about the money that WF owes Manning (although that is the leverage that is allowing him to keep the job), I think this is about Manning believing he can prove everyone wrong who says he is a bad basketball coach. That is always the motivation of the athlete/competitor -- proving the doubter's wrong. He is tilting at windmills, but as long as his dumb contract keeps giving him another year, Danny is taking it because he believes his next season will be his best, even if it won't be.

 

[jaybone]

Getting paid multi-millions to do nothing, when you are already a multi-millionaire is far from a shitty deal.

Let me entertain this. I'm Manning. You're Currie.

To start, I'm pissed you leaked the negotiations to the media. You want me gone? Fire me and pay me the agreed upon buyout. Put on your big boy pants.

And stop saying I am doing nothing. I am drawing a harder and harder line in the sand each time you say something stupid. I'm working my ass off here. You play golf and talk to boosters and work in the office. Until the pandemic, I was flying all over the country to meet with and find recruits. You've seen my receipts. It's relentless. I have a team that really loves me and we held strong all year. Everyone save Wynn who wasn't gonna play and Sharone who needs to be closer to Dad want to run this back. You want to go replace me? That is your prerogative, but you are going to have to adhere to our contract or I will sue the mother fucking shit out of you. I've had to hold my own against weasles like you. I was paid by Donald Sterling for many years so I know how to survive in a toxic environment. Don't test me, Currie. I'm tougher than I look.

 

[mebanedeac]

It must be dicey dealing with other coaches who are winning games and yet are expected to take pay cuts, while one grossly underachieving coach is being paid an exorbitant salary.

 

[netflixnchildres]

The situation is different because one is welcomed back with open arms and the other we’d like to fire. I’d take a pretty hard line with an employer on the way out the door than I would if I felt very secure and happy in my job.

So you're saying that if your boss wanted to fire you because of your sub-par job performance your attitude would be "fuck you, pay me." You're essentially Danny Manning.

 

[netflixnchildres]

Let me entertain this. I'm Manning. You're Currie.

To start, I'm pissed you leaked the negotiations to the media. You want me gone? Fire me and pay me the agreed upon buyout. Put on your big boy pants.

And stop saying I am doing nothing. I am drawing a harder and harder line in the sand each time you say something stupid. I'm working my ass off here. You play golf and talk to boosters and work in the office. Until the pandemic, I was flying all over the country to meet with and find recruits. You've seen my receipts. It's relentless. I have a team that really loves me and we held strong all year. Everyone save Wynn who wasn't gonna play and Sharone who needs to be closer to Dad want to run this back. You want to go replace me? That is your prerogative, but you are going to have to adhere to our contract or I will sue the mother fucking shit out of you. I've had to hold my own against weasles like you. I was paid by Donald Sterling for many years so I know how to survive in a toxic environment. Don't test me, Currie. I'm tougher than I look.

1. Danny Manning isn't in the room himself, it's his people who got him the absurd contract to begin with.
2. Wright left because he wasn't happy with the coaches, his dad's health was secondary to the matter.
3. The team doesn't love him, Sarr wants to leave if he stays.
4. Manning isn't flying all over the country recruiting, the majority of that has been done by the assistant coaches.
5. The rest of the things you said are literally the words of a crazy person.

 

[BarcaDeac]

So you're saying that if your boss wanted to fire you because of your sub-par job performance your attitude would be "fuck you, pay me." You're essentially Danny Manning.

if I was owed money on the way out I would make sure I get every penny I'm due

 

[jaybone]

1. Danny Manning isn't in the room himself, it's his people who got him the absurd contract to begin with.
2. Wright left because he wasn't happy with the coaches, his dad's health was secondary to the matter.
3. The team doesn't love him, Sarr wants to leave if he stays.
4. Manning isn't flying all over the country recruiting, the majority of that has been done by the assistant coaches.
5. The rest of the things you said are literally the words of a crazy person.

You're a terrible negotiator, John. Fuck you and pay me.

 

[netflixnchildres]

You're a terrible negotiator, John. Fuck you and pay me.

if I was owed money on the way out I would make sure I get every penny I'm due

And you both proved my point about Manning.

 

[BarcaDeac]

And you both proved my point about Manning.

but people are saying he should do the "honorable" thing and not take the money, which is stupid.

 

[jaybone]

And you both proved my point about Manning.

I don't think you understand what negotations are. Here it is in a nutshell:

1. I give you something
2. You give me something.
3. Does that get us to an agreement? Yes/No?
4. If No, see steps #1 and #2.

So, if I am going to take "less money" that we haven't yet defined - what are you giving me???

 

[birdman]

Not sure how that's relevant. It's not like any schools are reimbursing students on the academic side, so their revenue has remained constant and their costs have probably gone down.

Well, it shows the pay disparity at universities, but I'm saying a coach agreeing to a slight pay cut can keep two early career professors on the payroll through an international catastrophe. If schools don't reopen campuses in the fall and continue to teach on line primarily, there will be significantly lost revenue at universities. My university is already canceling on campus summer semesters and switching to on line only, which means dorms remain empty and food halls remain closed but those facilities have to be maintained and paid for without revenue. Buildings cost money. Universities are going to be really hard hit if they can't fully reopen in the fall.

 

[Deacon92]

I'm not defending DR or Mebane on this, because I don't think we're all that close to reopening, but regardless of who is making the decision and when it gets made, there is always going to be an economic component to this decision. At some point, cities and states are going to start telling people they can leave their home again and some number of people are going to get sick and die as a consequence. There is no scenario where we wait until the risk is 0.0% before we start letting people leave their homes. There is a certain amount of risk that comes with living and enjoying our lives, and we all know and accept that. Its the same reason we don't have a nationwide 20 mph speed limit even though it would save a ton of lives.

That math will be interesting.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I don't think you understand what negotations are. Here it is in a nutshell:

1. I give you something
2. You give me something.
3. Does that get us to an agreement? Yes/No?
4. If No, see steps #1 and #2.

So, if I am going to take "less money" that we haven't yet defined - what are you giving me???

You are turning a character argument into a negotiations argument. To answer your question about negotiations though it all boils down to this as Currie's leverage, I can make your daily life miserable and ensure your failure here at a level that is so bad, even the memories of Danny Manning the player will never be able to get you a job head coaching ever again. I can also screw with your family and friends on the coaching staff. I can be such an asshole that you hate coming to work every day, for fear of how I will continuously fuck with you to ruin your day.

As you point of though, Manning may not care about any of that. Currie may not even want to take it that far. A more honorable man with character and financial security would take the millions and walk away.