• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Manning Buyout Negotiations Have Begun

CONeill said:
Agreed to no such stipulation.

I'll put it this way: It was a 30-minute phone call and 17 was on the record. Sorry for being coy, but that's really all I can say.
Click to expand...

...........

Read between the lines ya fucking morons
 
If we just review the facts we know folks, it is easy to understand that something is quite "up" but that the end game is up in the air.

To review:

What we know:
* Late in the season, someone told a regional reporter that buyout negotations were happening
* Manning denied this
* Currie hasn't said a THING about basketball other than generic, "we all know we need to do better and where we want to be"
* Manning has continued after a brief disappearance as if he is the coach - the disappearance can be explained away by the pandemic - I sometimes disappear for hours and the end result is I have milk and meat in the refrigerator
* The folks we thought would transfer, transferred.
* We gained a competent transfer in - similar to previous fill in the gaps in the Manning era
* Currie has not completed his end review for Manning - this lack of comment and completion and commitment to next year one way or the other is a fact - what it implies is a jumble. The only thing to gin out of it is that next season is not set in stone FOR CURRIE - he's not sure how this plays out ... yet
*Chaundee Brown performs a troubling 180 and jumps ship about 48 hrs after being the most respected Manning defender on the team and even beyond that small circle
* Many posters have commented that Sarr will not play another year for Manning (despite getting much much better under his watch/tutelage), but to date has not done so
* In light of all of the above, it doesn't seem as if Manning is willing to take a pay cut - that doesn't seem to be total fact, but close to it - that would make sense in light of a previous buyout negotiation or firing - not at all if he were "safe"

That is what we know. I find it all very fascinating. I am not financier, but there are a number of financial factors folks have noted that are sort of facts but that may or may not be related. For example, if you fire Manning with NO buyout - just pay him his contract for the next 5 years, are you financially better off? In other words, do professionals who work the market believe that $2,500,000 in stocks today will be worth much more than that 1 year from now and you just re-initiate the buyout talks when more money is there?

What type of brand hit does Wake Forest take by firing Manning and hiring Beilen/Matta/somebody in this market? Outside our needs as hoops obsessives? And how much does Hatch care about that? Do Wake students and parents and some alumni get pissed off that school is still this amount of money but yet Wake is throwing X amount of money about a basketball program that may not even play meaningful games for 18 months? Is Clawson pissed that he essentially threw $250,000 of his own money at it?

There are bunch of questions that Currie would seem to need to answer and appease beyond our Manning sucks Basketball sucks mantra.

But to me the tea leaves only tell me that the whole program is a still in wild state of flux and anyone who posts decided outcomes (e.g., Manning is here for two more years!) is wildly speculating.

Based on what happened to Currie at Tennessee, I would assume he prefers next year being an absolute shitshow in an upside down year anyway than risk doing something big that is then overturned by some combination of Hatch and ? In other words, Currie may be the driver in this car, and he may know the road he's chosen to drive down, but there are a team of mechanics that include high level boosters working on the car and Hatch himself puts gas in the tank. To make matters worse, the fuel gauge doesn't work so Currie is still trying to feel out how far down the road he can get before the whole thing runs out of gas and he's stranded.

Good morning, Vietnam!
 
jaybone said:
If we just review the facts we know folks, it is easy to understand that something is quite "up" but that the end game is up in the air.

To review:

What we know:
* Late in the season, someone told a regional reporter that buyout negotations were happening
* Manning denied this
* Currie hasn't said a THING about basketball other than generic, "we all know we need to do better and where we want to be"
* Manning has continued after a brief disappearance as if he is the coach - the disappearance can be explained away by the pandemic - I sometimes disappear for hours and the end result is I have milk and meat in the refrigerator
* The folks we thought would transfer, transferred.
* We gained a competent transfer in - similar to previous fill in the gaps in the Manning era
* Currie has not completed his end review for Manning - this lack of comment and completion and commitment to next year one way or the other is a fact - what it implies is a jumble. The only thing to gin out of it is that next season is not set in stone FOR CURRIE - he's not sure how this plays out ... yet
*Chaundee Brown performs a troubling 180 and jumps ship about 48 hrs after being the most respected Manning defender on the team and even beyond that small circle
* Many posters have commented that Sarr will not play another year for Manning (despite getting much much better under his watch/tutelage), but to date has not done so
* In light of all of the above, it doesn't seem as if Manning is willing to take a pay cut - that doesn't seem to be total fact, but close to it - that would make sense in light of a previous buyout negotiation or firing - not at all if he were "safe"

That is what we know. I find it all very fascinating. I am not financier, but there are a number of financial factors folks have noted that are sort of facts but that may or may not be related. For example, if you fire Manning with NO buyout - just pay him his contract for the next 5 years, are you financially better off? In other words, do professionals who work the market believe that $2,500,000 in stocks today will be worth much more than that 1 year from now and you just re-initiate the buyout talks when more money is there?

What type of brand hit does Wake Forest take by firing Manning and hiring Beilen/Matta/somebody in this market? Outside our needs as hoops obsessives? And how much does Hatch care about that? Do Wake students and parents and some alumni get pissed off that school is still this amount of money but yet Wake is throwing X amount of money about a basketball program that may not even play meaningful games for 18 months? Is Clawson pissed that he essentially threw $250,000 of his own money at it?

There are bunch of questions that Currie would seem to need to answer and appease beyond our Manning sucks Basketball sucks mantra.

But to me the tea leaves only tell me that the whole program is a still in wild state of flux and anyone who posts decided outcomes (e.g., Manning is here for two more years!) is wildly speculating.

Based on what happened to Currie at Tennessee, I would assume he prefers next year being an absolute shitshow in an upside down year anyway than risk doing something big that is then overturned by some combination of Hatch and ? In other words, Currie may be the driver in this car, and he may know the road he's chosen to drive down, but there are a team of mechanics that include high level boosters working on the car and Hatch himself puts gas in the tank. To make matters worse, the fuel gauge doesn't work so Currie is still trying to feel out how far down the road he can get before the whole thing runs out of gas and he's stranded.

Good morning, Vietnam!
Click to expand...


Jaybone meditates to pass the time during the Coronavirus shutdown.
 
I think it could well be they are going through arbitration right now and hoping to use it to settle without going through a long and costly court battle. It would explain a lot if this is the case
 
jaybone said:
What type of brand hit does Wake Forest take by firing Manning and hiring Beilen/Matta/somebody in this market? Outside our needs as hoops obsessives?
Click to expand...

solid post, and I'll take a crack at answering this one. This answer is none at all. Our "brand" has already been damaged so severely the last ten years that at the moment we don't have a brand. WFU used to be known as a basketball school and a pretty dang good one at that. Now thanks to Ron Wellman and his slew of mistakes since the day Prosser died, no one outside of old guys know that Wake used to be very solid program.

If we fired Manning/hired Beilen (or other high profile), we MIGHT have a couple articles written immediately afterwards questioning our monetary practices, but 48 hours later, absolutely no one would care. Except we would have a really quality coach leading the way through uncharted waters and don't think that BC and Ga Tech and a host of others would be jealous of our move, even as they rationalized their own lack of moves. Our brand takes absolutely no hit at all if we do this, but it sure would help our brand in the long run. NO ONE, NO ONE would care 2 or 3 years later as we are playing our first NCAA game in ages and our Brand would be rising at every mention of WFU in march madness.
 
SC DEAC said:
solid post, and I'll take a crack at answering this one. This answer is none at all. Our "brand" has already been damaged so severely the last ten years that at the moment we don't have a brand. WFU used to be known as a basketball school and a pretty dang good one at that. Now thanks to Ron Wellman and his slew of mistakes since the day Prosser died, no one outside of old guys know that Wake used to be very solid program.

If we fired Manning/hired Beilen (or other high profile), we MIGHT have a couple articles written immediately afterwards questioning our monetary practices, but 48 hours later, absolutely no one would care. Except we would have a really quality coach leading the way through uncharted waters and don't think that BC and Ga Tech and a host of others would be jealous of our move, even as they rationalized their own lack of moves. Our brand takes absolutely no hit at all if we do this, but it sure would help our brand in the long run. NO ONE, NO ONE would care 2 or 3 years later as we are playing our first NCAA game in ages and our Brand would be rising at every mention of WFU in march madness.
Click to expand...

I agree. Our brand would take no hit, and in fact would immediately benefit.
 
SC DEAC said:
solid post, and I'll take a crack at answering this one. This answer is none at all. Our "brand" has already been damaged so severely the last ten years that at the moment we don't have a brand. WFU used to be known as a basketball school and a pretty dang good one at that. Now thanks to Ron Wellman and his slew of mistakes since the day Prosser died, no one outside of old guys know that Wake used to be very solid program.

If we fired Manning/hired Beilen (or other high profile), we MIGHT have a couple articles written immediately afterwards questioning our monetary practices, but 48 hours later, absolutely no one would care. Except we would have a really quality coach leading the way through uncharted waters and don't think that BC and Ga Tech and a host of others would be jealous of our move, even as they rationalized their own lack of moves. Our brand takes absolutely no hit at all if we do this, but it sure would help our brand in the long run. NO ONE, NO ONE would care 2 or 3 years later as we are playing our first NCAA game in ages and our Brand would be rising at every mention of WFU in march madness.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, and I understand that rationally - but what if on-campus undergraduate culture doesn't return in late August and we piecemeal a college experience together over the next 15 months - what do parents think who are paying some % of full tuition in this temporary environment??? I ask because I just don't know.

Is there some sort of pushback from professors and Hatch and parents?

Thanks for the rational response, btw, you and Rafi both.
 
Definitely take it as there is some lawyering going on behind the scenes. If it was purely financial, then we would have some answers by now. The fact that he’s not commenting on it and won’t say definitively as to whether Manning will be back or not, reeks of legal wrangling. Now, what they’re arguing over and why and if they will reach an agreement is anybody’s guess. But, until it’s affirmatively stated on the record that Manning is back, that gives me some hope. And, sadly, that’s the most positive news surrounding this program in 10 years.
 
Yesterday as I was socially correct distancing while golfing I came to the understanding that our basketball coach is like Covid-19:
It infects everyone.
It won’t leave, there is even concern that it may return for another round in the late fall and winter.
There are no current therapies or vaccines, but I hope like hell that we are working hard to develop these.
The only known way to stop it is distancing yourself.
 
Les Grossman said:
Definitely take it as there is some lawyering going on behind the scenes. If it was purely financial, then we would have some answers by now. The fact that he’s not commenting on it and won’t say definitively as to whether Manning will be back or not, reeks of legal wrangling. Now, what they’re arguing over and why and if they will reach an agreement is anybody’s guess. But, until it’s affirmatively stated on the record that Manning is back, that gives me some hope. And, sadly, that’s the most positive news surrounding this program in 10 years.
Click to expand...

The lawyering is tied to the financial, and vice-versa.
 
tagsfan said:
The lawyering is tied to the financial, and vice-versa.
Click to expand...

It’s tied the contract. The finances are intertwined, but a separate issue. I think it’s fair to assume that all of this wouldn’t be occurring unless a) Wake has all the money needed to get rid of Manning, but they are trying to reduce the amount they pay, or b) they don’t have all the money Manning says he’s entitled to, and they’re doing this to hopefully get down to a number they can pay. If Currie knew they didn’t have the finances under either scenario, then I would assume we would have heard Manning is back for sure by now.
 
The funny thing, if you can call it that, is that Manning's buyout is surely a tiny fraction of the loss that the endowment fund must have incurred as the result of the drop in the market from Covid-19. Just pay the guy and get him out of here. Wake will be much better off in the long run.
 
Les Grossman said:
It’s tied the contract. The finances are intertwined, but a separate issue. I think it’s fair to assume that all of this wouldn’t be occurring unless a) Wake has all the money needed to get rid of Manning, but they are trying to reduce the amount they pay, or b) they don’t have all the money Manning says he’s entitled to, and they’re doing this to hopefully get down to a number they can pay. If Currie knew they didn’t have the finances under either scenario, then I would assume we would have heard Manning is back for sure by now.
Click to expand...

This strikes me as a reasonable interpretation of the situation, or at least one that assumes Currie is competent. (There are also plenty of reasonable interpretations of the situation on here that assume Currie is incompetent.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top