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#ManningIn or #ManningOut?

#ManningIn or #ManningOut?

  • Total voters
    227
Y’all can’t seem to decide on an argument. Manning hasn’t and in fact is incapable of bringing in the talent necessary to compete in the ACC but he has also wasted the talent he has and has demonstrated he is such a poor coach that he wouldn’t be able to coach talent even if he had it.

When confronted with the fact that Manning has performed as expected given the talent he has y’all wax and wane between the two.

I’ve read that the 06 team was WAYYY more talented than the current Wake team and that Skip was a WAYYY better in game coach. But confronted with the fact that this team was about the same as that one performance wise, all I get is a bunch of hand waiving.
 
PhDeac said:
It wasn’t until the last 8 years that it was a big deal to get Top 100 recruits.
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That is partially because ranking services have become much more accurate. There is a lot more information available on high school players today than there used to be. Millions of video capable phones. Millions of videos posted to the internet. AAU travel teams that have the players from different regions going against each other every summer. Because of greater interest, more sets of eyeballs looking at players (or at least videos of players) for the various rating and scouting groups.

The days of good players going unnoticed or flying under the radar are gone. It is the rare good player who isn't evaluated multiple times and rated. It is rarer and rarer for a player who is not top 100 to show up at college and be a really good player right away. There will be some exceptions, guys who were injured or guys who develop late, but these are going to be extremely rare.
 
RChildress107 said:
Crawford/Chaundee/Hoard/Collins/Moore/Mucius
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Yeah, except that roster will never play together. And 5 of those 6 will only play 1 year together before it drops to 3 of the 6.
 
knowell said:
Pretty surprised that UVA beat Duke twice this year?
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Nope. UVA has elite talent and an elite coach. I would take both but I doubt we can pry Bennett away. I’ll settle for talent in the meantime.

And I think our odds of finding a coach as good as Tony Bennett are far longer than of finding another Rodney, Randolph, Tim, Josh, Chris, Jeff, James, Al-Farouq, John, Jaylen.
 
Ayo said:
Yeah, except that roster will never play together. And 5 of those 6 will only play 1 year together before it drops to 3 of the 6.
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The question was whether Manning had demonstrated any evidence that he could put a roster like that together. The fact that one of those guys left unexpectedly (at the time of recruitment) early doesn’t mean Manning hasn’t demonstrated he’s capable of putting such a roster together.

I think it’s still an open question if he can recruit fast enough to keep up with attrition and I’ve stated (as has pretty much the entire “pro” Manning crowd) that he probably can’t survive a dud in 2019.
 
RChildress107 said:
Y’all can’t seem to decide on an argument. Manning hasn’t and in fact is incapable of bringing in the talent necessary to compete in the ACC but he has also wasted the talent he has and has demonstrated he is such a poor coach that he wouldn’t be able to coach talent even if he had it.

When confronted with the fact that Manning has performed as expected given the talent he has y’all wax and wane between the two.

I’ve read that the 06 team was WAYYY more talented than the current Wake team and that Skip was a WAYYY better in game coach. But confronted with the fact that this team was about the same as that one performance wise, all I get is a bunch of hand waiving.
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It's almost like you are responding to a bunch of different people with differing views.
 
RChildress107 said:
Nope. UVA has elite talent and an elite coach. I would take both but I doubt we can pry Bennett away. I’ll settle for talent in the meantime.

And I think our odds of finding a coach as good as Tony Bennett are far longer than of finding another Rodney, Randolph, Tim, Josh, Chris, Jeff, James, Al-Farouq, John, Jaylen.
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Compared to Duke, UVA's talent is pedestrian. There are a lot of teams with the similar talent to UVA.
 
RChildress107 said:
Y’all can’t seem to decide on an argument. Manning hasn’t and in fact is incapable of bringing in the talent necessary to compete in the ACC but he has also wasted the talent he has and has demonstrated he is such a poor coach that he wouldn’t be able to coach talent even if he had it.

When confronted with the fact that Manning has performed as expected given the talent he has y’all wax and wane between the two.

I’ve read that the 06 team was WAYYY more talented than the current Wake team and that Skip was a WAYYY better in game coach. But confronted with the fact that this team was about the same as that one performance wise, all I get is a bunch of hand waiving.
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Manning doesn't recruit exceedingly well and he's bad at coaching. I agree I'm not sure why people on here argue about what he isn't good at. It's both. It looks like maybe we are upticking some on recruiting which is cool but manning isn't good enough at coaching to not be an elite recruiter.
 
RChildress107 said:
On average, recruits perform to ranking. Not a hard concept to grasp. Manning can roll out a lineup of all top 100 recruits next season.

I get the argument that Manning isn’t capable of doing anything with that talent (I disagree but I get it). I don’t understand the argument that Manning is incapable of assembling a roster with talent similar to past successful teams at Wake.
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How did Chaundee pan out for us? How did Harry Giles pan out for Duke? I'd say on average, unless a kid is top 3 and a "sure thing", it's a roll of the dice that he'll amount to what the desperate fans are imagining him to be. And I again cite WF history as illustrative.
 
knowell said:
It's almost like you are responding to a bunch of different people with differing views.
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Seen a lot of that all from the same posters. I’ll put you in the he’s a good enough recruiter to put together a 2005 or 2009 type roster but is a significantly worse coach than Skip or Dino so we will suck anyways camp. Hard to square that with the 16-17 season but at least you’ve staked out a position.
 
Can’t survive a dud in 2019? Why not? He has already survived duds in 3 of his 4 years and the other year was just barely above average. [Redacted] had three horrific years and survived to have an average to below average year 4. Anything is possible given the man currently running our athletic department. I think everyone ho is Manning Out now, believes a season where we barely make the NCAA or the NIT will lead to more years of failure, due to “progress” being made. Then a 2019 recruiting season like 2016 will give us another four years of this BS. Make a change now when a person who can actually coach can in with the talent we currently have.
 
RChildress107 said:
Seen a lot of that all from the same posters. I’ll put you in the he’s a good enough recruiter to put together a 2005 or 2009 type roster but is a significantly worse coach than Skip or Dino so we will suck anyways camp. Hard to square that with the 16-17 season but at least you’ve staked out a position.
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That is my position. Add to that, I don't think any team will have a decent post season run without adequate defense. I don't think Manning prioritizes defense enough to succeed in the post season. Unfortunately Skip did not either.

Realize that I am not saying you have to have elite defense like UVA, but you can't just be bad. We have seen nothing better than bad from Manning.
 
RChildress107 said:
So I’ll put you in the Skip wasn’t capable of making the Final Four camp (what started this whole conversation in the first place).
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Pretty good evidence of that. Elite offense, pedestrian defense does not equal final 4.
 
Lohengrin said:
How did Chaundee pan out for us? How did Harry Giles pan out for Duke? I'd say on average, unless a kid is top 3 and a "sure thing", it's a roll of the dice that he'll amount to what the desperate fans are imagining him to be. And I again cite WF history as illustrative.
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You do realize that when you add up all the recruits that didn’t pan out with all the recruits that did, you can come up with how the average top 25 recruit performs, right? The history of recruiting rankings is illustrative that the relationship between ranking and performance is pretty strong.

Can we get a new poll for how many of you have taken a basic stats class?
 
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