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Mass Gov Admits: It's a Christmas Tree

Here is what I find interesting about this situation. First a caveat: I could care less what hey call the Tree....really doesn't matter to me either way, because government calling a tree something doesn't effect (or is it affect) my belief system either way...but here is my thoughts.

1. It used to be called a Christmas tree
2. Apparently there was motivation enough to change the name from Christmas to Holiday Tree
3. Once changed the people who like Christmas tree complained
4. The people who CARED enough to change the name now passively aggressively quiz the other side why THEY care enough. And ask, don't we have more important things to discuss?

I find that dynamic interesting. Both sides care, or their wouldn't be a controversy. I personally could care less. But apparently there are people who care enough about it being a Christmas tree (which is the side that gets ridiculed for having mixed up priorities) and there are people who care enough that it NOT be called a Christmas tree (which is the side that gets to ridicule the Christmas tree proponents).

In reality, both sides care, both sides deserve equal blame (if that is the right word). Figure out a solution and move on, but it is completely hypocritical for anyone that cared enough to change the name to ask why the Christmas tree proponents even care about such a small issue.

There are a lot of people in this thread who say they don't care. I have no problem with that. If you don't care, then you don't have an opinion. You can't say "It should be called a Holiday tree because the government shouldn't support one religion" and then following that statement up by asking people who want the Christmas tree label returned "Why do you even care?"

Millhouse - I guess I am kind of following up (agreeing) with what you said. Both the governors office and people on both sides should have better things to worry about.
 
Here's the solution: whatever was printed on the invitations is okay.
 
here's the solution: society just fucking accepts the fact that Christmas is as important a holiday in a secular sense as is it is religious
 
Here is my question for the multi-cultis: Why do you feel it necessary to call it something different? Those of us who are unhappy about this change can articulate our side very well.

Again, what substantiated benefits will America gain by changing the name of this object?
 
RaleighDevil said:
Here is my question for the multi-cultis: Why do you feel it necessary to call it something different? Those of us who are unhappy about this change can articulate our side very well.

Again, what substantiated benefits will America gain by changing the name of this object?
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Articulate it, then. And articulate the benefits of keeping the name as it is.
 
RaleighDevil said:
Here is my question for the multi-cultis: Why do you feel it necessary to call it something different? Those of us who are unhappy about this change can articulate our side very well.

Again, what substantiated benefits will America gain by changing the name of this object?
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I mean, if we're getting hyper-technical here isn't the use of the tree on or around 12/25 really just a pagan thing anyway?

The 12/25 date usage may not be right (sun god??) but I'm pretty sure the tree was used during the winter by the pagans and it got rolled up into Christmas to make the pagans think that things weren't all that different.
 
Ball State Deac said:
I mean, if we're getting hyper-technical here isn't the use of the tree on or around 12/25 really just a pagan thing anyway?

The 12/25 date usage may not be right (sun god??) but I'm pretty sure the tree was used during the winter by the pagans and it got rolled up into Christmas to make the pagans think that things weren't all that different.
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This is semi-correct.
 
"holiday tree" implies the tree has a symbolic place in other holidays. which it does not. fucking dumb.
 
Holiday tree implies that it has a place in non-Christian homes during the holiday season, which it does. Fucking correct.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Holiday tree implies that it has a place in non-Christian homes during the holiday season, which it does. Fucking correct.
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Which homes would those be? It is a tree used in the celebration of Christmas, a Christian holiday. If other homes are using it, that is all well and dandy, but at this point in time it is used for the celebration of the birth of Christ, an inherently Christian holiday.

At what point are we going to call the stars of david and Menorahs "holiday stars" and "holiday menorahs"?
 
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Many Jewish families (with young kids) who live in predominently Chrisitan neighborhoods have Christmas trees. It's too hard to explain to young kids why theri friends have something that they don't.

It's not about celebrationg Christmas or Jesus.
 
bojanglefunk said:
Which homes would those be? It is a tree used in the celebration of Christmas, a Christian holiday. If other homes are using it, that is all well and dandy, but at this point in time it is used for the celebration of the birth of Christ, an inherently Christian holiday.

At what point are we going to call the stars of david and Menorahs "holiday stars" and "holiday menorahs"?
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My home, for instance. I call it a Christmas tree because that's what I have always called it, but it is not used for the celebration of the birth of Christ in my home. Christmas is not a Christian holiday for me, so, at this point in time, it is not used in the myopic way you describe it.

Regardless, what we're really talking about is the government using taxpayer money to put up to put up a tree in a government building, as opposed to a tree in somebody's home (my digression, but we're talking about different circumstances).
 
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Shooshmoo said:
Holiday tree implies that it has a place in non-Christian homes during the holiday season, which it does. Fucking correct.
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uh, not really considering those celebrating the holiday are celebrating Christmas, whether they're doing it secularly or not. it's still Christmas, hence christmas tree.

I'll state it again, the only real solution is for everyone to just accept that Christmas is increasingly simply a secular winter holiday with religious roots. That is, a holiday where people sing songs and have parties and give gifts but could care less about baby deities. (per my other post earlier on this thread).
 
ImTheCaptain said:
I'll state it again, the only real solution is for everyone to just accept that Christmas is increasingly simply a secular winter holiday with religious roots. That is, a holiday where people sing songs and have parties and give gifts but could care less about baby deities. (per my other post earlier on this thread).
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I agree with you, except for the religious roots part.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I agree with you, except for the religious roots part.
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Explain how you can not think it has religious roots. I worded my previous post poorly and ImTheCaptain basically said what I was shooting for. Regardless of what people say they are doing, they are celebrating a holiday that has religious roots in a Christian holiday and the Christmas tree is linked to that holiday. I think Menorah's are cool and if I choose to decorate with one I will not be celebrating in a religious way. That said, I will recognize that it has roots in a religious holiday and is a Menorah, not a holiday candelabrum.
 
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ImTheCaptain said:
truf, the pagan traditions were still religious in nature even before being co-opted by Christians
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Yep (although the christmas tree in its current iteration isn't a great example- it is more the yule log and general greenery decor that is more closely related).
 
Except if you use the definition of pagan that means "one who has no religion" -- but that's semantics. When you referenced religion, Captain, I incorrectly inferred you were referring to Christianity. To the extent you view the pagan traditions to be religious I agree as we're talking about sun gods and nature gods and agriculture gods, but Christmas is still not "celebrating a holiday that has religious roots in a Christian holiday" as bojangle said.
 
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