Michael Jackson the Pedophile

[TheTwinAndreBen]

Wesley Morris is probably the best film writer around today. In The Times today he previews the 4 hour Michael Jackson Documentary, of which the first of two parts will air this Sunday night on HBO.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/arts/television/michael-jackson-leaving-neverland.html?

If the average cultural experience demands the suspension of disbelief, if we oughtn’t think too much about this movie we’re watching, this novel we’re reading, this magic trick being performed right before our eyes, if being entertained means setting aside skepticism, logic and possibly a sense of morality, then what a magic trick we had in Michael Jackson.

He lived in defiance of physics and race and gender, and we just kind of lived with that. We ate it up. Just the odyssey of his nose from bulb to nub seemed somehow like a people’s journey. For so long, so much about Michael Jackson won our awe, our pity, our bewilderment, our identification, our belief that he was a metaphor, an allegory, a beacon, a caveat — for, of, about America. You need to do a lot of looking at him to feel this way. You also need to do a lot of looking the other way.

But, eventually, all the suspension reaches a logical end. You run out of hooks to hang things on. There’s a moment in “Leaving Neverland,” Dan Reed’s documentary about Jackson’s alleged pedophilia, where I simply ran out of hooks. The movie devotes itself to two men, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who claim, in separate accounts, that Jackson sexually abused them for years, from boyhood into adolescence.

 

[WFU71]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

 

[PhDeac]

Maybe we as a society will finally figure out how to handle transcendent art that came from people who did bad things.

 

[Grabs Turds Bare]

Just let the man be dead. Enjoy the good music. Fuck.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Maybe we as a society will finally figure out how to handle transcendent art that came from people who did bad things.

That’s like saying what a great job Sandusky did with that Penn State defense.

 

[Grabs Turds Bare]

That’s like saying what a great job Sandusky did with that Penn State defense.

I think that's not a valid comparison. Sandusky abused vulnerable children in a place where they should have been 100% safe. MJ had parents willingly offering up their children unto sketch situations.

Moreover, Sandusky did do good in his professional realm, but that's so different than making music that literally changed the world for the better.

 

[wakelaw13]

You can separate the music from the man. You can appreciate his music (I don’t, but you do you) and simultaneously acknowledge he was a horrible person.

 

[marquee moon]

You can separate the music from the man. You can appreciate his music (I don’t, but you do you) and simultaneously acknowledge he was a horrible person.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...on-songs-airwaves-child-sex-abuse-claims.html

 

[DeacHead]

Almost as sickening as pedophilia is watching someone contort themselves to defend pedophiles.

As to the OP, I heartily agree that Wesley is the best movie critic. Not to be "guy that liked that one indie band before they got big" but I've been a big fan for over 15 years, when he was writing for the Globe. His podcast is great too, not his co-host so much.

 

[scooter84]

I think that's not a valid comparison. Sandusky abused vulnerable children in a place where they should have been 100% safe. MJ had parents willingly offering up their children unto sketch situations.

Moreover, Sandusky did do good in his professional realm, but that's so different than making music that literally changed the world for the better.

Oof. Blaming the victim, or the victims parents, is not a good look. I don't know how kids ended up in the PA St. locker room with Sandusky unaccompanied but that seems just as sketchy.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

I think that's not a valid comparison. Sandusky abused vulnerable children in a place where they should have been 100% safe. MJ had parents willingly offering up their children unto sketch situations.

Moreover, Sandusky did do good in his professional realm, but that's so different than making music that literally changed the world for the better.

This is so so so wrong. They are actually a decent comparison.

I'm still kind of wading through it all. I am still like 2% that maybe he didn't do it, and was really just this broken weirdo. But after taking another unnecessary dive into this stuff I am 98% that it is very likely he did do it all, groomed all these kids in a pattern, and was really a monster playing the long game with these kids and their parents. The stuff about the alarm bells at the house and the fact that he never really had intercourse with the kids most likely so there would be no visible evidence is just scary.

There are hordes of people still defending. The parents and the accusers are p creepy as well.

The father of Wade Robson and the father of Jordie Chandler, the kid who was allegedly paid ~$20MM to settle a civil suit in 1993, have both committed suicide.

 

[cville deac]

Jim Jefferies had a good piece on this last year with his fame to blame ratio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHXO8KoGiv4

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

This is a good read. Last night I read one of her prior articles detailing the negotiations in the 1993 case, and it is unfollowable. Jackson had retained that PI Pellicano, to help mitigate the case, the same guy who is now in federal prision for illegally wiretapping various celebs and private individuals in the course of his work. A twist: he gets out this month.

 

[Grabs Turds Bare]

This is so so so wrong. They are actually a decent comparison.

I'm still kind of wading through it all. I am still like 2% that maybe he didn't do it, and was really just this broken weirdo. But after taking another unnecessary dive into this stuff I am 98% that it is very likely he did do it all, groomed all these kids in a pattern, and was really a monster playing the long game with these kids and their parents. The stuff about the alarm bells at the house and the fact that he never really had intercourse with the kids most likely so there would be no visible evidence is just scary.

There are hordes of people still defending. The parents and the accusers are p creepy as well.

The father of Wade Robson and the father of Jordie Chandler, the kid who was allegedly paid ~$20MM to settle a civil suit in 1993, have both committed suicide.

Here's where I'm at: the dude 100% had terrible judgment at very best. Pedophilia in all its forms is abhorrent and should be criminally prosecuted if it can be. The offender should receive a fair punishment. However, unlike Sandusky, he wasn't ever charged with a crime; let alone convicted of one. That alone puts a huge gulf between the two in my eyes.

I feel like if serious shit actually went down at Neverland, then it would have come out fairly quickly. Because at least one of the parents loaning their kids out would have realized that if Jackson pulled a criminal conviction for abusing their child, they would basically have a blank fucking check during the civil suit. Now, some less-than-rape stuff could have gone down - and, again, that's never excusable. But whatever did happen was never criminally prosecuted - even though there are many parties that would have substantially benefited from that prosecution.

I deal with this shit on basically a daily basis - it always sucks. I'm a little more sensitive to how the word "victim" is used in these cases. While I appreciate throwing shade my way on it, right now I just haven't seen what would be necessary in court to put Jackson's estate on the line.

 

[ITK]

A lot of people thought if a doctor was molesting 100s of athletes including Olympians someone might have said something too. Turns out they were wrong.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

Here's where I'm at: the dude 100% had terrible judgment at very best. Pedophilia in all its forms is abhorrent and should be criminally prosecuted if it can be. The offender should receive a fair punishment. However, unlike Sandusky, he wasn't ever charged with a crime; let alone convicted of one. That alone puts a huge gulf between the two in my eyes.

I feel like if serious shit actually went down at Neverland, then it would have come out fairly quickly. Because at least one of the parents loaning their kids out would have realized that if Jackson pulled a criminal conviction for abusing their child, they would basically have a blank fucking check during the civil suit. Now, some less-than-rape stuff could have gone down - and, again, that's never excusable. But whatever did happen was never criminally prosecuted - even though there are many parties that would have substantially benefited from that prosecution.

I deal with this shit on basically a daily basis - it always sucks. I'm a little more sensitive to how the word "victim" is used in these cases. While I appreciate throwing shade my way on it, right now I just haven't seen what would be necessary in court to put Jackson's estate on the line.

Yeah, not that this matters in anyone's day to day, but you are wrong on a couple points. You haven't seen what is necessary because you haven't looked into it. At least read the March 1 Vanity Fair article linked above and see what you think then.

1. He was charged with a crime, 15 felonies I think, and acquitted in 2004. During the trial the accuser correctly identified certain distinct markings on MJs peen (he had that splotchy skin disease).

2. Blaming the parents loaning out the kids is chicken and egg. MJ was a monster. He specifically picked families who were desperate and had absent or severely flawed parents and generally no dad.

3. They did have a blank check in a civil suit. One accuser received $25MM in 1993 money. Another accuser received $2.5MM. Let's not forget he bought these families houses, cars, and even arranged for citizenship so they could stay in the US in some cases. Those were real time payoffs to the families.

The statutes may have run on the civil claims, but the dude was a serial molester and likely deserved life in prison.

 

[JuiceCrewAllStar]

re: artist vs. art, does the calculation change when the artist is still alive and receiving royalties from you for consuming his/her art, e.g. R Kelly?

 

[Grabs Turds Bare]

re: artist vs. art, does the calculation change when the artist is still alive and receiving royalties from you for consuming his/her art, e.g. R Kelly?

Sounds like I was wrong about MJ. TAB is right, he was a monster.

R Kelly is also a monster. I had already stopped digesting his content. I hate that MJ has to join that club.

 

[TheTwinAndreBen]

Yeah if you stream Ignition you are directly contributing to his defense fund at this point.

 

[Say Hey Deac]

I watched the first hour of Leaving Neverland last night, and that is a tough hang. It's compelling, but I can't say I'm looking forward to watching the remaining 3 hours.