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NC sued over voter ID laws

"The Democrats would've never been rid of those had they had their way."

When you admit that the Democrats of those days became Republicans?

Really? Did Abraham Lincoln become a Democrat in the meantime? Quit changing the subject and tell me how minority votes were suppressed when there was no early voting BECAUSE there was no early voting. Quit trying to derail by talking about poll taxes, literacy tests, slavery, and shit like that.
 
Not talking about slave and Jim Crow days. The Democrats would've never been rid of those had they had their way.

I'm saying there is nothing to suggest minority vote was suppressed due to the absence of early voting. Therefore, there is no reason to challenge the absence of early voting. Nor is there some right to early voting. You have the right to vote, nothing more, nothing less. You don't have the right to take two weeks to get your lazy ass to a polling place.

The voter ID challenge I can at least understand, even though I think it's a stupid challenge as well.

This logic is ridiculous. So much ridiculous non-logic in this thread. You and 2&2 have to twist yourselves in knots to justify by other means what everyone knows (and plenty of Pubs have admitted when they thought no one was looking) is a plan to suppress minority voting.

By this logic, no one's second amendment rights were being oppressed in 1791 when the only gun available was a muzzle-loading rifle, so outlawing all guns other than muzzle loading rifles would be perfectly fine.

Minority voting rates have been going up in NC. http://wunc.org/post/north-carolina-black-voter-turnout-tops-us That led to results that the GOP really didn't like, especially in 2008. So they want to dial it back. If they could dial it back to 1950, they'd love it, but they'll have to settle for 2004 or 2000 levels maybe. They hope that will be enough to keep NC a red state in a couple more Presidential elections and maybe get Kay Hagan out of the senate, before the demographics finally catch up with them.

It is telling that neither one of you can actually identify a positive reason why the early voting and registration rules were changed. No one, not even Phil Berger, has claimed it would save money, for example, and no one has claimed that it will improve elections in any way, or explained what problems were being caused by early voting. All the talking points are defensive, like your asinine "well no one was suppressed before early voting" argument. The whole story is "we did it because we damn well wanted to, and here's the reasons why you can't stop us".
 
Democrats need to find a way to win back one of the chambers so that they can shut the state government down if there's a law they don't like.
 
Really? Did Abraham Lincoln become a Democrat in the meantime? Quit changing the subject and tell me how minority votes were suppressed when there was no early voting BECAUSE there was no early voting. Quit trying to derail by talking about poll taxes, literacy tests, slavery, and shit like that.

The Democrats of the 50/60s became Republicans.

black weren't able to vote the south until after that.

You are totally ridiculous.

The voter suppression that are being implemented today are 100% by Republicans. There is no way around this fact.
 
No, the logic here is that these laws were implemented so that Democrats could get their laziest voters out to the polls. Oddly enough, it worked. The logic in fighting voter ID laws, much as it was in implementing Motor Voter where you don't even have to demonstrate that you are citizen in order to register to vote, is that you can get as many people to vote as possible without the hindrance of them being who they say they are. Of course you aren't going to demonstrate a lot of voter fraud in this way because it can't be demonstrated that the person isn't who they say they are. The way you find out is when some jackwagon brags about it on social media or to their friends. Therefore, they must be on the up-and-up. Democrats have created a false threshold for dismissing these concerns. There is no constitutional right to early voting. It is absurd. The ease of voting is so roundly embraced by the Democratic party for the same reason that immigration "reform" is-- it ultimately creates more Democratic voters and entrenches them in power.

Republicans fight this because it benefits the Democratic Party for sure, but also because it's such obvious shenanigan nonsense. It is an insult to the democratic process. Not the "noble goal" of having more people vote, but the way it is demagogued and abused to one party's benefit. Sure you get more people to vote if people are voting multiple times. Sure you get more people to vote if precinct rules are relaxed. Sure you get more people to vote if you have 2 weeks to go round up all the homeless bums in the city and give them a sandwich to vote for your guy. But there's nothing noble in that.

At some point, it isn't about what is good for somebody and bad for the other. It's about what business it is of the federal government to step in and interfere with a state conducting its election cycles. It has ZERO business telling a state that it can't restrict early voting. You have the right to vote on a fucking Tuesday. That's how it is spelled out. If somebody tells a black man he can't vote because he's black or he has to take a literacy test, that is jacking with his right and becomes a federal issue. If the state says, hey, you know what, you get to vote on Tuesday and nobody is going to jack with you when you vote, that isn't a federal issue.

As for voter ID, I have never bought into the notion that something you need to get food, smokes, food stamps, a prescription, a marriage license, a hotel room, an apartment, bank account, a loan, a rental car, Medicaid, an airplane flight, to drive, or basically anything else that one requires in order to live their life, is somehow The Great Suppressor. Gimme a break.

Minority voting was up because a black man ran for President. When some boring white man represents both parties, it will subside again.
 
The Democrats of the 50/60s became Republicans.

black weren't able to vote the south until after that.

You are totally ridiculous.

The voter suppression that are being implemented today are 100% by Republicans. There is no way around this fact.

Republicans of the 50s and 60s were responsible for the VRA in the first place. Republicans of the 1860s were responsible for the passage of the post-war amendments and the clusterfuck that was Reconstruction, but led to the first black men being elected to Congress. Great, the GOP took in Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms while the Democrats kept Robert Byrd. Big whoop.
 
This logic is ridiculous. So much ridiculous non-logic in this thread. You and 2&2 have to twist yourselves in knots to justify by other means what everyone knows (and plenty of Pubs have admitted when they thought no one was looking) is a plan to suppress minority voting.

What knots? That someone should be required to provide the most basic proof that they are who they say they are? That is a basic premise in all aspects of society. That is about as far away from a knot as you can get. It would be great if we could simply take everyone at their word, but we can't. I think I'll go file my 1040 this year showing $10 as my AGI, and when the IRS asks me to verify it, I'll give them the old "It is what I say it is, and you are required to believe me under any and all circumstances" because the Taxing & Spending clause does not specifically require me to provide proof of income. We'll see how well that goes.
 
Posrep to ELC for coming out and admitting that the reason he's in favor of cutting back early voting is because it makes it too easy for Democrats to vote. 2&2, your turn.
 
Republicans fight this because it benefits the Democratic Party for sure, but also because it's such obvious shenanigan nonsense. It is an insult to the democratic process. Not the "noble goal" of having more people vote, but the way it is demagogued and abused to one party's benefit. Sure you get more people to vote if people are voting multiple times. Sure you get more people to vote if precinct rules are relaxed. Sure you get more people to vote if you have 2 weeks to go round up all the homeless bums in the city and give them a sandwich to vote for your guy. But there's nothing noble in that.

The rest of your post is going over ground that has already been plowed, but I had to respond to this. The ONLY reason Republicans fight it is because it benefits the Democrats. Period. It has absolutely nothing to do with the integrity of the voting process. NC Republicans don't give a shit about the integrity of the voting process. If they did, they would have tightened up the absentee voting rules, where almost all cases of actual fraud occur, instead of loosening them. The fact that they did not pretty much gives the lie to your little speech.

The actual counterargument is that increasing turnout is in and of itself a noble goal. If the government is supposed to reflect the will of the people, then the government will be better if more of the people vote. That's pretty simple. Since we schedule voting on a Tuesday for some asinine reason, it makes all the sense in the world to have early voting so working people can vote. I don't particularly care about early voting as an institution, I care about access to the ballot. If we made Election Day a national mandatory holiday or made voting mandatory like some countries, we could cut early voting way back. But that would allow WAY too many Democrats to vote, so that will never, ever happen.
 
Posrep to ELC for coming out and admitting that the reason he's in favor of cutting back early voting is because it makes it too easy for Democrats to vote. 2&2, your turn.

I'm not in favor of cutting back early voting, I've said that multiple times on this board. If I was writing the bill I would not have included that. However, it is pretty clear in modern politics that something good usually has something bad riding along with it. If you can name me a recent 100% perfect bill, I'm all ears (duly noting the property tax re-do legislation that came down a month or two ago). I am strongly in favor of Voter IDs, so if we have to get a cutback of early voting to get that, so be it. You can call the motivation racist or partisan or whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that even with these cuts voting is still probably the easiest type of routine government interaction out there for any race or party. So if cutting back on some early voting periods means we get an ID requirement, then I'm okay with that. Getting 50% good and 50% bad is a helluva lot better than the 10/90 ratios that we've been seeing over the past 5 years, so I'll take it. And, back to my original point in my original post, the idiot OpEd Board at the WSJ chose to focus their fight on the 50% good and claim racism as to that portion, which is what annoys me. If you want to argue against the early voting cuts then go right ahead, but don't try to feed the same bullshit about it being too hard for a handful of people to get an ID who can just as easily vote absentee if they are truly shut-ins.
 
Republicans of the 50s and 60s were responsible for the VRA in the first place. Republicans of the 1860s were responsible for the passage of the post-war amendments and the clusterfuck that was Reconstruction, but led to the first black men being elected to Congress. Great, the GOP took in Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms while the Democrats kept Robert Byrd. Big whoop.

You used to be smarter than this.

VRA passed 77-19 with almost all of the nos from Southerners who quickly became Republicans.
 
yeah, the voting bill is complete voter suppression bullshit. I've supported the implementation of voter ID laws multiple times on this board, but this NC bill is simply garbage and you shouldn't be so desperate as to defend it. While we're at it, do you also want to defend the increased penalties for cutting off motorcyclists in the motorcycle safety bill? You know, the motorcycle safety bill that closes down the majority of planned parenthoods in the state.
 
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