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NCAA Proposes to Reinstate Penn State / Paterno Wins

84Deac said:
Which coaches broke the law?

The first incident that was part of the Sandusky trial occurred in 2001. That is 3 years AFTER Sandusky retired from coaching. Not sure I see how Penn State football could benefit from any alleged coverup at that point. Far more interesting is that the Board of Directors of Sandusky's charity never faced liability even though they were aware of that incident and continued to allow Sandusky to work for the charity until 2009.

The accused Penn State administrators (President, AD and a Senior VP) will most likely never be tried because there is no evidence of a conspiracy or coverup. No doubt that Sandusky was guilty of his crimes, but there is no evidence that anyone else engaged in criminal behavior regarding the reporting/handling of the 2001 incident.

JoePa and Penn State football were thrown under the bus by the members of the PSU Board of Trustees that were also board members at Second Mile. They had the most to lose, including the Chairman/CEO of Merck (Kenneth Frazier). Blaming it all on PAterno and PSU football put it in a nice package for ESPN, but the truth is far uglier and nastier when you dig below the surface.
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not this shit again.
 
Deacon923 said:
To say the whole thing was a mess is a massive understatement, but I never understood why the NCAA decided to vacate wins as part of the punishment. Seems to me that vacating wins/championships is meant to punish schools who competed in those games with an unfair competitive advantage. The argument that the Sandusky cover up gave PSU a competitive advantage of some kind in any of those games is a really, really big stretch. Taking away the wins punishes not only Paterno but also the hundreds of players who played in those games and had not one thing to do with the Sandusky matter.

The big monetary fine I understand, and I certainly think paying it to support abused children rather than lining the NCAA's pocket is the right thing to do. Putting the school on some kind of probation I could understand. Certainly the victims should get their day in court and PSU should pay them a boatload of cash as well. But vacating the wins, that never made sense to me.
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Completely agree.
 
Deacon923 said:
To say the whole thing was a mess is a massive understatement, but I never understood why the NCAA decided to vacate wins as part of the punishment. Seems to me that vacating wins/championships is meant to punish schools who competed in those games with an unfair competitive advantage. The argument that the Sandusky cover up gave PSU a competitive advantage of some kind in any of those games is a really, really big stretch. Taking away the wins punishes not only Paterno but also the hundreds of players who played in those games and had not one thing to do with the Sandusky matter.

The big monetary fine I understand, and I certainly think paying it to support abused children rather than lining the NCAA's pocket is the right thing to do. Putting the school on some kind of probation I could understand. Certainly the victims should get their day in court and PSU should pay them a boatload of cash as well. But vacating the wins, that never made sense to me.
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Enabling a Defensive Coordinator to be on staff for 30 years who should have been otherwise been in prison is not a competitive advantage? To me that is more of a competetive advantage justifying vacating wins than one player who would be ineligible causing wins to be vacated. at the college level the DC is going to have a much bigger impact on the game than most individual players.
Plus, you don't think the entire aura of the Second Mile program helped with recruiting and the Penn State brand to attract players and sponsors?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Enabling a Defensive Coordinator to be on staff for 30 years who should have been otherwise been in prison is not a competitive advantage? To me that is more of a competetive advantage justifying vacating wins than one player who would be ineligible causing wins to be vacated. at the college level the DC is going to have a much bigger impact on the game than most individual players.
Plus, you don't think the entire aura of the Second Mile program helped with recruiting and the Penn State brand to attract players and sponsors?
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i don't want to sound like a joepa or PSU defender here, i just think the NCAA is ridiculous and this is an example of ridiculousness. The argument is there, and like I said before, it's a big stretch. No one has ever said that PSU knew about Sandusky for 30 years. He had been retired for years before the "shower incident" which should have been reported to the police. So that part doesn't hold any water at all unless you know some facts I don't know.

Sure the second mile thing might have helped a little around the margins. But come on, every school has nonprofits and boosters bringing disadvantaged kids to games. I don't buy that the Second Mile foundation gave anybody a competitive advantage.

Again it was right to fire Joe Pa, it was right to fine PSU eleventy billion dollars, and the president and AD and others who knew also should be personally liable for their part in the cover up - I'm not defending any of those people. I'm just saying I disagree with the NCAA's exercise of this particular remedy, because it doesn't make any sense - which makes it consistent with a lot of things the NCAA does.
 
Deacon923 said:
i don't want to sound like a joepa or PSU defender here, i just think the NCAA is ridiculous and this is an example of ridiculousness. The argument is there, and like I said before, it's a big stretch. No one has ever said that PSU knew about Sandusky for 30 years. He had been retired for years before the "shower incident" which should have been reported to the police. So that part doesn't hold any water at all unless you know some facts I don't know.

Sure the second mile thing might have helped a little around the margins. But come on, every school has nonprofits and boosters bringing disadvantaged kids to games. I don't buy that the Second Mile foundation gave anybody a competitive advantage.

Again it was right to fire Joe Pa, it was right to fine PSU eleventy billion dollars, and the president and AD and others who knew also should be personally liable for their part in the cover up - I'm not defending any of those people. I'm just saying I disagree with the NCAA's exercise of this particular remedy, because it doesn't make any sense - which makes it consistent with a lot of things the NCAA does.
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The guy put the image of his fucking football program over raping little kids. It really does not get any worse than that. He doesn't deserve to have one single win on his record. Who cares how it happens. This is college football, not life or death.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
The guy put the image of his fucking football program over raping little kids. It really does not get any worse than that. He doesn't deserve to have one single win on his record. Who cares how it happens. This is college football, not life or death.
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What is the basis for this allegation? I'm not trying to downplay the heinous nature of Sandusky's crimes, but the only incident that Joe was allegedly aware of happened 3 years AFTER Sandusky had retired from the coaching staff. Not to mention that Sandusky and Paterno weren't even friendly. Sandusky retired after Joe told him there was no way that he was ever going to succeed Paterno as head coach. So it is really a stretch to say that PSU football/Joe benefited from this and totally irrational to say he put the football program above the acts of a pedophile. There just is no basis in fact for that.

Follow the money. Who paid Louis Freeh $8 million to write a report that throws Paterno and PSU administrators under the bus? Answer: The Board of Trustees. There is quite an overlap of BOT members and Board of Directors for Second Mile (typically their spouses and kids), and several big PSU donors were big donors to Second Mile as well, long after Sandusky retired from PSU. That's where the liability should really fall: http://deadspin.com/5925419/the-second-mile-took-no-action-after-being-informed-of-sanduskys-2001-shower-incident

Sandusky fooled a lot of people, as often happens with pedophiles. But the hit job done on Paterno orchestrated by the BOT kept all of those others out of the line of fire (and free from criminal/civil charges).

At least have some command of the facts before you disparage a dead man's character like that. You clearly don't, but screw it with all that due process stuff. The court of (uninformed) public opinion has spoken.
 
Paterno died knowing his legacy was forever ruined. That's all that matters.
 
Fuck the dead motherfucker, he deserves to be disparaged. It is his program, he is responsible for all aspects of it. If he knew of it 3 minutes, 3 days, 3 years, or 3 decades after it happened, he should have reported it and followed it all the way through. If there is a hell, hopefully he is burning in it.
 
84Deac said:
What is the basis for this allegation? I'm not trying to downplay the heinous nature of Sandusky's crimes, but the only incident that Joe was allegedly aware of happened 3 years AFTER Sandusky had retired from the coaching staff. Not to mention that Sandusky and Paterno weren't even friendly. Sandusky retired after Joe told him there was no way that he was ever going to succeed Paterno as head coach. So it is really a stretch to say that PSU football/Joe benefited from this and totally irrational to say he put the football program above the acts of a pedophile. There just is no basis in fact for that.

Follow the money. Who paid Louis Freeh $8 million to write a report that throws Paterno and PSU administrators under the bus? Answer: The Board of Trustees. There is quite an overlap of BOT members and Board of Directors for Second Mile (typically their spouses and kids), and several big PSU donors were big donors to Second Mile as well, long after Sandusky retired from PSU. That's where the liability should really fall: http://deadspin.com/5925419/the-second-mile-took-no-action-after-being-informed-of-sanduskys-2001-shower-incident

Sandusky fooled a lot of people, as often happens with pedophiles. But the hit job done on Paterno orchestrated by the BOT kept all of those others out of the line of fire (and free from criminal/civil charges).

At least have some command of the facts before you disparage a dead man's character like that. You clearly don't, but screw it with all that due process stuff. The court of (uninformed) public opinion has spoken.
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This downplaying of Paterno's culpability because Sandusky wasn't on the coaching staff anymore is disgusting. Sandusky had full access to PSU Football Facilities precisely because he was a former coach, and the damn incident happened in a football facility. He was told about what happened and he looked the other way, didn't follow up on his initial report. He just didn't want to deal with it.
 
KitchinDeac said:
This downplaying of Paterno's culpability because Sandusky wasn't on the coaching staff anymore is disgusting. Sandusky had full access to PSU Football Facilities precisely because he was a former coach, and the damn incident happened in a football facility. He was told about what happened and he looked the other way, didn't follow up on his initial report. He just didn't want to deal with it.
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But other than that, he was an absolute saint.
 
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