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Next Wake Forest Basketball Coach...

Y’all are playing checkers while Wellman is out here playing Go. Gonna let our boy A.W. Hamilton take over the OVC at Eastern Kentucky for 3 years while Manning pulls an upper-middle class man’s Gottfried and plateaus despite a shit ton of talent.
 
PhDeac said:
Wrangor, Manning barely improved on [Redacted] despite having better talent.
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And Obama is to blame for The 2008 Recession. The economy completely tanked when he became president!

Don’t lose your mind over this concept, but it is almost as though a previous administrations effectiveness can have a large impact on the success of the next.
 
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Wrangor said:
And Obama is to blame for The 2008 Recession. The economy completely tanked when he became president!

Don’t lose your mind over this concept, but it is almost as though a previous administrations effectiveness can have a large impact on the success of the next.
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No one doubts this concept. Everyone but a few just agree that a coach can still be judged by what he does with what he starts with.
 
RJKarl said:
If a guy isn't going to play a sport in college (as they thought), he's typically not ranked highly or scouted highly in his second sport.
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What were the ratings for Ronald Curry and Terrell Pryor? Wasn't Iverson also highly rated in football? How about Julius Peppers in basketball?
 
Wait. People actually believe a president controls expansion and contraction in an economy? Holy fuck.
 
PhDeac said:
Yep. I think when people say Manning "significantly" improved the program, they mean two things:

1. We snuck into the tournament because John Collins is by far the best player we've had in the last 8 years.
2. They "feel" significantly better about Danny Manning than they did about Bz.

Neither is a reason to want Manning to stick around as coach.
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Nah I think they mean that the program is in a significantly better spot than it was 4 years ago. JC and last year’s top 40 team are a large part of that, this year’s team is a very small part of that, and our first two top 35 recruits since 2008 are a medium sized part of that.

Manning’s ultimately responsible for all of it, just as he’s ultimately responsible for not yet having the program where he arguably (still waiting to hear that argument though) should after year 4.

You can admit Manning has significantly improved the program and still want him fired.
 
RChildress107 said:
Nah I think they mean that the program is in a significantly better spot than it was 4 years ago. JC and last year’s top 40 team are a large part of that, this year’s team is a very small part of that, and our first two top 35 recruits since 2008 are a medium sized part of that.

Manning’s ultimately responsible for all of it, just as he’s ultimately responsible for not yet having the program where he arguably (still waiting to hear that argument though) should after year 4.

You can admit Manning has significantly improved the program and still want him fired.
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Still having multiple transfers every year. Still losing 20 games a year (worse than the latter years of BZ). Still very little hope for the future.

Looks like BZ 2.0.

The recruiting class looks marginally better next year but Manning's incredible talent for roster mismanagement even makes that look dubious.
 
RacerDeac said:
No one doubts this concept. Everyone but a few just agree that a coach can still be judged by what he does with what he starts with.
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Who doesn't agree with your second part. Manning most definitely deserves to be judged at some point. That point is next year. Most coaches begin to be judged during their 3rd and 4th year. Manning performed admirably in 3rd and not in 4th. Due to the quagmire he was gifted, he deserves an extra year to prove himself. No one is saying he should have no accountability. But if he makes the tournament next year, then that is 2 out of 3 years with an NCAA tournament bid, and a team that is extremely young and poised to be good in the future.

If he doesn't make the tournament, certainly if we have another year like 17-18, then he deserves to be let go. Don't set up goalposts that no one is defending.
 
knowell said:
Still having multiple transfers every year. Still losing 20 games a year (worse than the latter years of BZ). Still very little hope for the future.

Looks like BZ 2.0.

The recruiting class looks marginally better next year but Manning's incredible talent for roster mismanagement even makes that look dubious.
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At first glance it looks the same outside at 4AM as it does at midnight but one of those is a lot closer to dawn.
 
Additionally if we take an unbiased statistical measurement of Wake's basketball output it is pretty clear that the narrative of 'Manning is not much better than [Redacted]' is intellectually dishonest:

KenPom [Redacted]:
259
211
137
117

KenPom Manning
120
118
36
90

Avg KP:
[Redacted] (181)
Manning (91)

Beating [Redacted] is not the end goal of any coach, but can we please just retire that rhetoric? Manning is better....a lot better than [Redacted].

Next year when we finish inside the top 50 for KP, that will make 2 years out of 3 that we have done so. We won't be back to where we should be (dare I say historically competitive....), but we will be making progress. If we have a bummer 2019 class that will slow the process, but if we somehow can make a strong effort in 19, combined with the success we will have next year, the momentum will finally start to turn. I hate to see so many fans jumping off the ship when we are finally making progress towards the shore.
 
Wrangor said:
And Obama is to blame for The 2008 Recession. The economy completely tanked when he became president!

Don’t lose your mind over this concept, but it is almost as though a previous administrations effectiveness can have a large impact on the success of the next.
Click to expand...

Your whole point is that the program is in better shape which I do agree with. But we aren’t seeing it in the win column.
 
PhDeac said:
Your whole point is that the program is in better shape which I do agree with. But we aren’t seeing it in the win column.
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Who said that that we are seeing it in the win column? I wasn’t aware that was an argument someone was making.
 
Wrangor said:
Who doesn't agree with your second part. Manning most definitely deserves to be judged at some point. That point is next year. Most coaches begin to be judged during their 3rd and 4th year. Manning performed admirably in 3rd and not in 4th. Due to the quagmire he was gifted, he deserves an extra year to prove himself. No one is saying he should have no accountability. But if he makes the tournament next year, then that is 2 out of 3 years with an NCAA tournament bid, and a team that is extremely young and poised to be good in the future.

“Admirably” is a wild stretch. We beat one good team all year and flamed out in both tournaments despite having two professional players on the roster.

If he doesn't make the tournament, certainly if we have another year like 17-18, then he deserves to be let go. Don't set up goalposts that no one is defending.
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Piss on waiting 3 or 4 years to make the decision on keeping or firing a coach. WTF!!!!! I'm getting F%#$@% old waiting on every coaches three/four year period before we fire their sorry ass. SERIOUSLY, everyone can see that he cannot coach with the big boys and we have a school that could and should compete with ANYONE in the country..... We're on Tobacco road and we have had amazing players at Wake over the years and had very good teams. We have the money at Wake, the facilities are coming and we deserve and should demand better.. I did not graduate from Wake, I graduated from ASU and live in the mountains but been a Deac fan my entire life... Again, piss on giving a coach 4 years to turn it around.... I mean if he can't truly coach fundamentals(rebounding, zone defense, man to man, BOXING THE FUCK OUT,) than he does not need to be a coach at Wake Forest. So in my opinion, it is past time for the powers that be to fire his damn ass and move on from this shit show... I truly don't cuss much but by damn I want you guys to feel me tonight... WE DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS!!!!!!!!! I try to make most home games and I went to the first 2 this year. While at the games, myself and a handful of others was furious at our lack of passion, boxing out, rebounding. This starts with YOUR COACH. He needs to fired yesterday and I wish I could just pull for another team but I can't. However, this was the first year that I finally refused to go to any other games other than the first 2. I sold the rest of my tickets.. He needs to be fired. At this point, Go Deacs.. I guess...
 
It took one minute into the 2nd half of last nights Duke/Syracuse game for Coach K to call a timeout and chew his players out for lack of hustle. Honestly, Danny Manning would never do that, he doesn't demand hustle, perfection(or search there of), grit and any other adverb that describes passion. WE DESERVE BETTER. WE NEED TO DEMAND BETTER.
 
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