ObamaInterview on 60 Minutes

[EatLeadCommie]

And let's be clear. If this mission failed and ended with Osama alive and a few dozen dead Navy SEALs, you wouldn't be giving him credit for making difficult, calculated risk-taking decisions. You'd be talking about how this sealed up 2012 for the Republicans.

Actually, I don't think we'd hear about the mission at all had it failed-- certainly not initially. If we had, it would've leaked through the Washington Times or somebody and not given the credibility of a NYT or WaPo exclusive. I think that's why, politically anyway, it was a no-brainer, in addition to being the right thing to do.

 

[WakeandBake]

But these were not broad sweeping statements, they were specific agenda items with specific supporting rationale. As I said originally, I made the initial post when he made the initial proclamation during his campaign, because the concept was so simple that any idiot with even a basic understanding of income taxes would see that the two positions were mutually exclusive. Up until that point, I probably would have voted for the guy. Obviously, he has just been digging himself deeper holes since then.

I hear ya, man - you got me. Most people I would say are not small business owners who are writing off capital depreciation - and so when a campaigning politician in a speech says he won't raise taxes they take it as a generalization about tax rates. you held him to the letter - touche

I suppose you feel Ronald Reagan was a liar of the highest order when he proposed to strengthen defense, lower income taxes, and reduce the budget deficit all at the same time. An impossibility that on its face any idiot would know was not possible, and at which Reagan failed. As with the entire supply side argument, really....

 

[RJKarl]

Bake, reagan raised taxes something like 10-11 times. But 2&2 won't call him a liar and won't attack him the way he does Obama.

St. Ronald armed the Ayatollah and Hamas. He ran like a scarewd little girl after our Marines were murdered in Beruit rather than attacking Iran or others who attacked us.

 

[WakeandBake]

no, no... I give 2and2 credit - he saw an inconsistency in the campaign rhetoric that raised a flag for him and he never trusted Obama's business acumen thereafter. that's his right and he may be right, I don;t know the jury is still out and it's third year.

the other guy overrated or whatever is just being a crumbsnatcher with his youtube posts. hackneyed, that

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

I hear ya, man - you got me. Most people I would say are not small business owners who are writing off capital depreciation - and so when a campaigning politician in a speech says he won't raise taxes they take it as a generalization about tax rates. you held him to the letter - touche

I suppose you feel Ronald Reagan was a liar of the highest order when he proposed to strengthen defense, lower income taxes, and reduce the budget deficit all at the same time. An impossibility that on its face any idiot would know was not possible, and at which Reagan failed. As with the entire supply side argument, really....

If Reagan said that now I would call him out on it ... I was too young to remember/understand it in context then though, so I can't really speak to it one way or the other. But he very well may have been full of shit himself, I don't know.

Part of what pisses me off about Obama's deficiencies is that he marketed himself as the anti-incumbent, and a lot of people voted for him strictly because of that. In other words, if Hillary or Jesse Jackson made those same incorrect statements it wouldn't have soured me as much because I would have expected it from them to begin with. Perhaps I, and many others, were hoping for more from Obama based on the way he carried himself. But once the luster of his image wears off and you see through the rhetoric, I don't think there is much substance behind it. Though, as I said earlier and to the main point of this thread, I give him credit for the Bin laden decision.

 

[Underrated]

no, no... I give 2and2 credit - he saw an inconsistency in the campaign rhetoric that raised a flag for him and he never trusted Obama's business acumen thereafter. that's his right and he may be right, I don;t know the jury is still out and it's third year.

the other guy overrated or whatever is just being a crumbsnatcher with his youtube posts. hackneyed, that

Hey wake & bake, honest question, in the second video I posted do you believe Obama was lying? Do you think he was being honest?

 

[Underrated]

Bake, reagan raised taxes something like 10-11 times. But 2&2 won't call him a liar and won't attack him the way he does Obama.

St. Ronald armed the Ayatollah and Hamas. He ran like a scarewd little girl after our Marines were murdered in Beruit rather than attacking Iran or others who attacked us.

Reagan made many many mistakes but leaving Beirut was not one of them. Obama could learn something here. Here's Reagans explanation

In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing we should do was turn tail and leave. If we did that, it would say to the terrorists of the world that all it took to change Americans foreign policy was to murder some Americans. If we walked away, we'd also be giving up on the moral commitment to Israel that had originally sent our marines to Lebanon. We'd be abandoning all the progress made during almost two years of trying to mediate a settlement in the Middle East. We'd be saying that the sacrifice of those marines had been for nothing. We'd be inviting the Russians to supplant the United States as the most influential superpower in the Middle East. After more than a year of fighting and mounting chaos in Beirut, the biggest winner would be Syria, a Soviet client. Yet, the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there.

*
*How do you deal with a people driven by such a religious zeal that they are willing to sacrifice their lives in order to kill an enemy simply because he doesn't worship the same God they do? People who believe that if they do that, they'll go instantly to heaven? In the Iran-Iraq war, radical Islamic fundamentalists sent more than a thousand young boys - teenagers and younger - to their deaths by telling them to charge and detonate land mines - and the boys did so joyously because they believed, "Tonight, we will be in Paradise."


As 1984 began, it was becoming clearer that the Lebanese army was either unwilling or unable to end the civil war into which we had been dragged reluctantly. It was clear that the war was likely to go on for an extended period of time. As the sniping and shelling of their camp continued, I gave an order to evacuate all the marines to anchored off Lebanon. At the end of March, the ships of the Sixth Fleet and the marines who had fought to keep peace in Lebanon moved on to other assignments. We had to pull out. By then, there was no question about it: Our policy wasn't working. We couldn't stay there and run the risk of another suicide attack on the marines. No one wanted to commit our troops to a full-scale war in the middle East. But we couldn't remain in Lebanon and be in the war on a halfway basis, leaving our men vulnerable to terrorists with one hand tied behind their backs. We hadn't committed the marines to Beirut in a snap decision, and we weren't alone. France, Italy, and Britain were also part of the multinational force, and we all thought it was a good plan. And for a while, as I've said, it had been working.

 

[ChrisL68]

Don't even get 2&2 started on the auto depreciation rules for SUVs. He is convinced that is another blatant lie by Obama.

Frankly, in the world of political lies, this is about as nit-picky as you can get. A strong theoretical argument can be made that deduction timing rules and tax rates are two entirely separate things.

Clearly Obama was talking about personal income tax rates.

 

[WakeandBake]

Overrated.......I think he is trying his best to end the war and get the troops home. Could he have gone in and pulled it off like a Band-Aid and shipped them all home in one fell swoop? sure, but I really think he wants to do it in the best possible way for all parties. the important thing for me is that he is not a war monger and he doesn't surround himself with war mongers as the previous president did. He is not part of PNAC or the Heritage Foundation who see American military hegemony around the world as an imperative. So in a campaign speech when a politician says he is going to end the war, I receive that message as a heartfelt intention to end the war - that he is going to push on the side of ending the war. if you follow political campaigns and rhetoric as literally as you are doing, then every single politician from Cicero to Obama will disappoint you and you will give up on politics altogether as a hobby...

 

[WakeandBake]

If Reagan said that now I would call him out on it ... I was too young to remember/understand it in context then though, so I can't really speak to it one way or the other. But he very well may have been full of shit himself, I don't know.

that made me spit out my tea onto my keyboard. well put:thumbsup:

 

[RJKarl]

The combat troops are out of Iraq and were our earlier than planned by a few days.

 

[ONW]

"We had to pull out. By then, there was no question about it: Our policy wasn't working. We couldn't stay there and run the risk of another suicide attack on the marines."

RR would have been labeled a "cut and runner" in 2004.

 

[Liquid Karma]

"We had to pull out. By then, there was no question about it: Our policy wasn't working. We couldn't stay there and run the risk of another suicide attack on the marines."

RR would have been labeled a "cut and runner" in 2004.

Correct.

 

[ONW]

Or flip-flopper, or emboldening the enemy, or a pussy liberal, or Kenyan, etc...

 

[Underrated]

Yet, the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there.



We have not learned anything, gtfo Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya now.

 

[LilburnDeac]

Part of what pisses me off about Obama's deficiencies is that he marketed himself as the anti-incumbent, and a lot of people voted for him strictly because of that. .

I disagree. Obama marketed himself as the anti-Bush, who was actually much more dishonest in the way he marketed himself in 2000. He was the son of a president, born in Connecticut, went to Yale and Harvard, was a sitting Governor of a huge state, yet somehow he (or Karl Rove) convinced people he was some kind of outsider.

 

[PhDeac]

I disagree. Obama marketed himself as the anti-Bush, who was actually much more dishonest in the way he marketed himself in 2000. He was the son of a president, born in Connecticut, went to Yale and Harvard, was a sitting Governor of a huge state, yet somehow he (or Karl Rove) convinced people he was some kind of outsider.

Well he was an outsider compared to the Vice-President. And it was even easier to sell considering how clueless and aloof Al Gore was compared to W.

 

[LilburnDeac]

Well he was an outsider compared to the Vice-President. And it was even easier to sell considering how clueless and aloof Al Gore was compared to W.

Fair point. Outsider and anti-incumbent aren't really the same thing. Anti-incumbents run on the promise of change from the current administration. Outsiders run on the promise of change from the entirety of the federal government. I don't know when we last had a true "outsider" in the White House. Carter maybe?