Obama's Middle East speech

[ArlingtonDeac]

In 1967 Isreal was living in peace with its neighbors when they were attacked from all sides. If you start a war, you have no justification to get back land you lost by attacking your neighbors.

Just ask Alsatians.

Thewre woudl have been a Palestinian state for about fourteen years already had Arafat accepted getting back 98% of the land the Araba lost and making Golan a DMZ.

If you start a wat and get 98% of what you want back after LOSING you've been given a great deal .

There are two things that will never happen. First Jerusalem is the capital of Israel ands has bene for thousands of years. It will not be partioned. Second, there will be no right of return. If there is the State of Israel will cease to exist.

If you think this strife is as simple as saying that Israel won the 1967 war so they get to set the terms, you have no grasp of the situation. For Israelis to have any real peace, ever, they are going to have to give back land to the Palestinians, regardless of who started what, who believes what, and who won what when. Real talk.

 

[DirkTheDeac]

Honest question, Arlington. Haven't the Israelis given back some land already?

 

[ArlingtonDeac]

Honest question, Arlington. Haven't the Israelis given back some land already?

Yes. The Israelis have been the more sane of the two parties to date. But the facts on the ground are that the Palestinians can continue to terrorize Israel in perpetuity unless a settlement is reached that can be sustained. That means, in my mind, at least returning the 1967 borders (a facet of nearly every peace plan every devised).

This is not an easy fix, obviously. But whoever won the conflict in 1967, and whoever started it, is less than meaningless today in terms of negotiating a workable settlement. The Palestinians aren't going away, and they prevent that Israel cannot eliminate the resistance with brute force.

 

[RJKarl]

If you think this strife is as simple as saying that Israel won the 1967 war so they get to set the terms, you have no grasp of the situation. For Israelis to have any real peace, ever, they are going to have to give back land to the Palestinians, regardless of who started what, who believes what, and who won what when. Real talk.

The Isarealis (including Netanyahu) have said they are going to give back land.

The US and Israeli position is to give back as much land as was taken just not exactly the same land.

There's no sane person who would give back the Golan Heights.

 

[DirkTheDeac]

I'm with rj on this one. Israel is dead meat if they return the Golan Heights. Everybody knows that.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

Unless my math skills are off, it sounds like you are saying the Israelis shoulder 0% of the blame. If that is your position, I'm not sure this discussion is worth having.

Your math is correct, and of course I'm being somewhat hyperbolic as always, but there is no question that the Palestinians and the other Muslim governments in the region shoulder the vast majority of the blame for the lack of a peace deal.

 

[ArlingtonDeac]

I'm with rj on this one. Israel is dead meat if they return the Golan Heights. Everybody knows that.

Exchange politcal sovereignty for the acceptance of permanent military outposts dotted across the heights (pretty much the status quo anyway). I'm certainly not proposing that Israel simply walk away with no security guarantees, or that limited exchanges aren't prudent, but, generally, the 1967 borders are the starting point.

 

[RaleighDevil]

The situation in Hebron. Is the assertion by one of the Jewish residents there correct?

http://pajamasmedia.com/michaeltotten/2011/05/31/darkness-in-palestine/

“We share control of the building with Palestinians,” David said, “but they tell us straight up that if they can throw us out of here that they won’t let us back in the tomb of our patriarchs. They say it’s a mosque and that only Muslims should pray there even though it was built by King Herod, who was a Jew. If we don’t stay here, none of us will even be able to visit.” ...

“They don’t want us here,” he said. “They say they don’t want us here, and they believe that someday we’ll leave, if not because they drive us out then because our own people will force us out. Mahmoud Abbas says that no Jews will be allowed to live in a Palestinian state. Arabs live in Israel, but he insists that no Jews can live in Palestine.”