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Official 2014 Ryder Cup Thread

Tin Cup said:
Kirk is so blah as a player. He would not have brought much of anything to the team.

The pick situation is bad, mainly because he changed the decision so late after having already told people he was going with Haas. It was the start of a ton of avoidable blunders.
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Ya, hitting the ball straight and making putts consistently wouldn't bring anything to the table at all. You only need ass-grabbing and fist pumps to win at foursomes at the Ryder Cup eh?
 
Why the Deac Not said:
Indeed, I don't think Phil would have had as much of an issue sitting Friday afternoon with assurance that he and Keegan would be going back out for 4-ball on Saturday morning with a chance at foursomes if playing well. TWatt botched this whole thing in a myriad of ways and while I don't necessarily agree with the timing of Phil's comments, it is obvious that someone needed to say what Azinger has been saying all along: that the whole process needs to be modified from cradle to grave.

The fact that Haas was going to be the pick (I can understand as he has a reputation as one of the more consistent ball-strikers and solid short game) and then wasn't in favor of picking the erratic Simpson because he was the only one who could seemingly pair up with the unpopular and surly B Watson, thus overlooking the fact that a fellow Bulldog, Chris Kirk, might have been a good fit with the occasionally wild-driving, pink-shafted, sulky bomber just shows how disconnected and unusual Tom Watson's reasoning was throughout the whole selection process. And I hesitate calling it a process; sounds more like throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks cuz "I'm Tom Watson and I demand that you play to your potential, so let it be written, so let it be." Sound approach!!
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Seems to me guys like Watson, Strange, Sutton, etc. have tried to take a real "hard ass" coach type of attitude into the captain's role, in other words, my way or the highway and chew you out if you don't play good. I just don't think you can take that attitude with guys that play 99 percent of their professional events as individuals. I think a captain during the event should basically act as the mouthpiece for the team, do everything they can to allow the players to just go out and play, and officially be responsible for the pairing based on input from the players. A "my way or the highway" approach just isn't going to work with a group of guys that may be as much as 20+ years removed from really being on a true team. A captain also needs to use a little common sense. Reid and Spieth had the hot hand and it would've been common sense to put them out in the afternoon on Friday. Sure, maybe they lose, but who could've really criticized them being back out there. Common sense also would tell you that Phil couldn't play all four team match Friday and Saturday and common sense would also tell you that Phil isn't the best guy to put out there in alternate shot. He's too wild off the tee and puts his partner in bad places, places that maybe Phil with his skill can get out of, but a partner may not. Watson, I guy I really respect and like, sounds like he couldn't have handed this much worse. I mean the major blame goes on the players, they lost it, but Watson sure didn't do anything to enhance their chances it sounds like.
 
Why the Deac Not said:
Ya, hitting the ball straight and making putts consistently wouldn't bring anything to the table at all. You only need ass-grabbing and fist pumps to win at foursomes at the Ryder Cup eh?
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Didn't work so well for Kuchar, Furyk and Johnson.
 
To me it's kind of crazy to have to make Captain's picks before the Tour Championship anyway. Horshal would've been a no brainer pick at that point, kind of like awarding the Heisman before the bowl games. Basically you're giving out the highest award in college football before player's have the opportunity to shine on the biggest stage, especially with the playoff system starting this year.
 
Kirk would have been the fourth rookie on the team if he had been selected. And the former University of Georgia star didn't do himself any favors by saying after his win that he wasn't entitled to a place on the team because he hadn't earned his way through the points race.

The anti-Webb.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
To me it's kind of crazy to have to make Captain's picks before the Tour Championship anyway. Horshal would've been a no brainer pick at that point, kind of like awarding the Heisman before the bowl games. Basically you're giving out the highest award in college football before player's have the opportunity to shine on the biggest stage, especially with the playoff system starting this year.
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For all we know Horschel would have declined the selection anyway (wife was due any day at that point). But I get your point. Not sure how much time you need logistically to make that happen. I know guys who win the event before the British often are scrambling to get on a plane within 24 hours of becoming eligible for the Open Championship. You would have 2 weeks in this case.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Didn't work so well for Kuchar, Furyk and Johnson.
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Cuz they made so many putts in the afternoon session. If not Kirk, then Horschel if you want a guy with so much fire in his belly that he breathes putts into the cup. Whatevs. Todd or Kirk would have been an epically better pick than Webb. Simpson is a streaky player who wasn't exactly playing his best over the final 3 months of the season. Did he even make a cut at a major?

Rookies did pretty darn well for the US side in this Ryder Cup. But it probably wouldn't have done anything but make it a bit closer without more points from Fowler, Kuch and Furyk.
 
qcdeac said:
For all we know Horschel would have declined the selection anyway (wife was due any day at that point). But I get your point. Not sure how much time you need logistically to make that happen. I know guys who win the event before the British often are scrambling to get on a plane within 24 hours of becoming eligible for the Open Championship. You would have 2 weeks in this case.
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Been nice to have had that option and future Ryder Cups could be moved back a week to allow more time between the Tour Championship and the Ryder Cup.
 
tau06 said:
Your Phil hate is really influencing your comments. Let it go man. Phil has his issues, but Watson is in the wrong here.
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They're both in the wrong. There are just right and wrong ways to go about your business. I don't believe in a team sport or competition you throw your fellow teammates or coaches under the bus, and Phil clearly did that. If he was motivated by trying to make positive changes in the future, he'd have later gathered a delegation of our star players and gone to the PGA and issued demands (and threaten to go public and making it nasty unless the PGA came to the table and agreed to some of those changes). But instead he chose to go off on Watson personally at the postgame presser, when really our biggest problem is how the PGA institutionally goes about appointing captains. First, this wasn't the time or place, and second, he was motivated by his panties getting in a wad over not playing Saturday after sucking on Friday. Though I certainly agree he shouldn't have played Friday afternoon in favor Reed and Spieth, and he should have been given another chance on Saturday morning.

And I agree with all of liveanddie's comments about our "hardass" coaches, Watson, Strange and Sutton. Not taking more player input and just listening to your fellow ancient assistants is plain stupid. And Watson, Strange and Sutton are probably our 3 worst in recent memory. It shouldn't be rocket science. Get to know the players a bit, take their input, foster a team environment and be publicly supportive and privately encouraging. Sutton was probably the worst. Not only was he a my way or the highway hardass, wasn't he the 1 who had the all-time lame decision of pairing Tiger with Phil? And then after we lost, he and his assistants pulled a Phil and went out and threw the players under the bus in the media afterwards.

The other problem I think we have is chemistry. The Euros always appear to have great chemistry. As much of an asshole as Seve was to everyone he played against during the year, be they Euro or American, he went out of his way to make all the Euro players welcome at the RC. We, OTOH, appear to have some natural divisions on our teams. We have the overtly Christian golf boys, we have Phil and his posse v. Tiger when Tiger is playing and maybe an old/young thing going on. And then captains who mostly appear not to be concerned with team building. Which is why Azinger's pod system seems to make sense - getting players with a smaller group of guys with whom they're most comfortable.
 
cville deac said:
They're both in the wrong. There are just right and wrong ways to go about your business. I don't believe in a team sport or competition you throw your fellow teammates or coaches under the bus, and Phil clearly did that. If he was motivated by trying to make positive changes in the future, he'd have later gathered a delegation of our star players and gone to the PGA and issued demands (and threaten to go public and making it nasty unless the PGA came to the table and agreed to some of those changes). But instead he chose to go off on Watson personally at the postgame presser, when really our biggest problem is how the PGA institutionally goes about appointing captains. First, this wasn't the time or place, and second, he was motivated by his panties getting in a wad over not playing Saturday after sucking on Friday. Though I certainly agree he shouldn't have played Friday afternoon in favor Reed and Spieth, and he should have been given another chance on Saturday morning.

And I agree with all of liveanddie's comments about our "hardass" coaches, Watson, Strange and Sutton. Not taking more player input and just listening to your fellow ancient assistants is plain stupid. And Watson, Strange and Sutton are probably our 3 worst in recent memory. It shouldn't be rocket science. Get to know the players a bit, take their input, foster a team environment and be publicly supportive and privately encouraging. Sutton was probably the worst. Not only was he a my way or the highway hardass, wasn't he the 1 who had the all-time lame decision of pairing Tiger with Phil? And then after we lost, he and his assistants pulled a Phil and went out and threw the players under the bus in the media afterwards.

The other problem I think we have is chemistry. The Euros always appear to have great chemistry. As much of an asshole as Seve was to everyone he played against during the year, be they Euro or American, he went out of his way to make all the Euro players welcome at the RC. We, OTOH, appear to have some natural divisions on our teams. We have the overtly Christian golf boys, we have Phil and his posse v. Tiger when Tiger is playing and maybe an old/young thing going on. And then captains who mostly appear not to be concerned with team building. Which is why Azinger's pod system seems to make sense - getting players with a smaller group of guys with whom they're most comfortable.
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I agree with this and you'd think it would be becoming less of an issue since many Euro players are playing over here more. The thought used to be that the Euros were closer because on the Euro tour they traveled together more and stayed together more just because of the logistics of where they played, but that is not so much the case anymore. Take a young guy like Mcilroy, he's played as much or more over here then the Euro tour, but he just steps right in and fights into the chemistry of that team. Whatever it is, the Euros really have it figured out. I thought maybe being such decided favorites might change the dynamic a bit, but it sure didn't seem to.
 
The chemistry starts from the top. Captain sets the tone for the week, and it starts months in advance. The players adored McGinley and he created a perfect atmosphere from the start.

He worked with Jamie Donaldson over the final month to create a plan for qualifying for the team. He sat down with him after one of the final few qualifying events and said "I want you on this team, but its going to be tough to choose a rookie. Let's craft the right schedule so you can make it on points". So Donaldson added an event in Czech Republic, won the event, and qualified for the team.

Watson didnt even talk to our players during the lead-up.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
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I agree with this and you'd think it would be becoming less of an issue since many Euro players are playing over here more. The thought used to be that the Euros were closer because on the Euro tour they traveled together more and stayed together more just because of the logistics of where they played, but that is not so much the case anymore. Take a young guy like Mcilroy, he's played as much or more over here then the Euro tour, but he just steps right in and fights into the chemistry of that team. Whatever it is, the Euros really have it figured out. I thought maybe being such decided favorites might change the dynamic a bit, but it sure didn't seem to.
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I think the Euros still have some leftover chemistry that they're still riding, no matter where they play on a regular basis. The 1 Euro captain who almost messed with that was Monty, when he clearly based his captain's picks on guys who regularly played over there and didn't pick the guys who regularly played over here. But that wasn't an issue this year.

Whereas we're in a position where we need to repair/build chemistry. First, some of our captains haven't helped, as we've all said. Second, the 2 guys who have dominated US golf over the past decade and a half to 2 decades are Phil and Tiger. And they hate each other. So we almost start off in 2 camps. Kinda like having a USA hoops team starting Timmy and Garnett in the same frontcourt. And now Phil has his posse of younger guys, with some crossover with the golf boys. So if you're a young guy like Spieth or Reed, you're not necessarily going into a cohesive environment to start with. And it would have been 10x worse this year had DJ not gotten caught with nose candy. Had you put him and Walker on the same team, the locker room would likely have been even tenser. Like it or not, we may be better off when some of this older generation (Tiger, Phil, Furyk...) starts not being on the squad.
 
Tin Cup said:
The chemistry starts from the top. Captain sets the tone for the week, and it starts months in advance. The players adored McGinley and he created a perfect atmosphere from the start.

He worked with Jamie Donaldson over the final month to create a plan for qualifying for the team. He sat down with him after one of the final few qualifying events and said "I want you on this team, but its going to be tough to choose a rookie. Let's craft the right schedule so you can make it on points". So Donaldson added an event in Czech Republic, won the event, and qualified for the team.

Watson didnt even talk to our players during the lead-up.
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I hadn't heard that. Brilliant move by McGinley to identify the players he wanted on the team and work with them to ensure he didn't have to blow a captains pick on them. What he did with getting Doobie and McDowell paired up in regular euro tour events was masterful as well.
 
He stunk the place up. There was no reason he should have played again until singles.
 
simosfrostyone said:
Gee Webb, I wonder why you only got to play twice. Your sorry game had nothing to do with that, I guess. What a baby.
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Yeah, in addition to his slow play, he comes across as a douche at times. He's nowhere near Bill Haas territory in terms of my favorite Deacs.
 
simosfrostyone said:
Gee Webb, I wonder why you only got to play twice. Your sorry game had nothing to do with that, I guess. What a baby.
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He did say 'if we would have won, I would have had a different answer'. Not great, but far from bash-worthy.
 
I was chosen in the lottery for the option to buy week long passes. Anyone have any experience with Ryder Cup tickets? Looks like I can get a Tuesday-Sunday book for 550.00. Anyone have a guess on the resale value of Ryder Cup tickets? I will probably fly out there Saturday/Sunday so I'm wondering how much I can get for the other days.
 
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