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Official Russian Election Interference Thread

simosfrostyone said:
It is downright perplexing that the board lefties are now so hawkish on Russia. Didn't hear much of this over the past 8 years. Can't be the hacking issue, since we know the Russians/Soviets always have done that. What's changed?
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really? you are perplexed? you are a fascinating man
 
sailordeac said:
an intelligence question where the facts remain unknown, likely to be less than conclusive, and unknowable for the time being.
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You keep saying this. It's not true.

Most of our knowledge comes via authority. And for good reason. I haven't done a double blind scientific study proving that Advil is a safe and effective pain reliever. But someone has and thus I know I can take Advil to relieve pain.

Republicans have shown outright contempt for the main authorities from which we receive knowledge (scientists, academia, journalists, "elite" experts in their field, etc.).

Blind trust of such authorities is dangerous and as humans such authorities are subject to mistake, bias, and dishonesty. But disregarding those authorities altogether because you don't like certain things they have to say is lunacy.

If you have have evidence that contradicts the CIA's conclusion or even suggests that the CIA is full of biased left line please share.
 
I guess all those republicans fretting about Russia back in 2008 were a bunch of left-libtards
 
simosfrostyone said:
It is downright perplexing that the board lefties are now so hawkish on Russia. Didn't hear much of this over the past 8 years. Can't be the hacking issue, since we know the Russians/Soviets always have done that. What's changed?
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It's hawkish to not want Russia to interfere in US elections? Weird position to take, but ok.
 
HMMM...let's compare:

Obama dropped sanctions and kept Iran from becoming a nuclear power for a minimum of 15-20 years versus less than a year. They went from having enough enriched uranium to build at least 5 nuclear bombs to not having enough to have a bbq. They have already filled the pool used for uranium enrichment. They gave up of 70% of their centrifuges and can't enrich uranium now. We now have inspectors in Iran and other protocols to see if anything is even started again.

Now compare that to dropping Russian sanctions after they attacked the US to compromise an election. And we give them a $500BILLION prize immediately and much more down the road while they are shooting at our allies in Syria.

Hmmmmmmmmm... a non-nuclear Iran versus helping fix a US election...yep those are equal.
 
RChildress107 said:
You keep saying this. It's not true.

Most of our knowledge comes via authority. And for good reason. I haven't done a double blind scientific study proving that Advil is a safe and effective pain reliever. But someone has and thus I know I can take Advil to relieve pain.

Republicans have shown outright contempt for the main authorities from which we receive knowledge (scientists, academia, journalists, "elite" experts in their field, etc.).

Blind trust of such authorities is dangerous and as humans such authorities are subject to mistake, bias, and dishonesty. But disregarding those authorities altogether because you don't like certain things they have to say is lunacy.

If you have have evidence that contradicts the CIA's conclusion or even suggests that the CIA is full of biased left line please share.
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then we'll just have to disagree on this for the time being
 
RJKarl said:
HMMM...let's compare:

Obama dropped sanctions and kept Iran from becoming a nuclear power for a minimum of 15-20 years versus less than a year. They went from having enough enriched uranium to build at least 5 nuclear bombs to not having enough to have a bbq. They have already filled the pool used for uranium enrichment. They gave up of 70% of their centrifuges and can't enrich uranium now. We now have inspectors in Iran and other protocols to see if anything is even started again.

Now compare that to dropping Russian sanctions after they attacked the US to compromise an election. And we give them a $500BILLION prize immediately and much more down the road while they are shooting at our allies in Syria.

Hmmmmmmmmm... a non-nuclear Iran versus helping fix a US election...yep those are equal.
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That's a perceptive analysis of the Iran deal. Please pm me--I have a bridge for sale.
 
sailordeac said:
Yes, Russian, or anybody else's, interference in US domestic politics is unwelcome and needs to be prevented. A serious investigation is in order and the results should be properly evaluated. On the other hand, the following are unwelcome from anyone: seeing Russia primarily from the perspective of US domestic politics, hyperventilating for dubious short-term domestic political gain over an intelligence question where the facts remain unknown, likely to be less than conclusive, and unknowable for the time being, failing to recognize that Russia may be adversarial in some areas but not in others and that good long term relations are in the interest of both Russia and the US, as well as Europe.

In what ways is Russia adversarial to the US?

I don't know how it will go but we all need better cyber protection, not only from Russia but also the US government, China, France, Germany, UK, Persia, Israel, ISIS and anyone else who is into cyber spying and mischief.
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Are you not worried at all that Trump will be unable to, or perhaps uninterested in, gaining the upper hand in any newfound friendship with Russia.

I.e. will he be able to get the benefits of a relationship with Russia while avoiding the obvious negative implications such a relationship could have?
 
RChildress107 said:
You keep saying this. It's not true.

Most of our knowledge comes via authority. And for good reason. I haven't done a double blind scientific study proving that Advil is a safe and effective pain reliever. But someone has and thus I know I can take Advil to relieve pain.

Republicans have shown outright contempt for the main authorities from which we receive knowledge (scientists, academia, journalists, "elite" experts in their field, etc.).

Blind trust of such authorities is dangerous and as humans such authorities are subject to mistake, bias, and dishonesty. But disregarding those authorities altogether because you don't like certain things they have to say is lunacy.

If you have have evidence that contradicts the CIA's conclusion or even suggests that the CIA is full of biased left line please share.
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this. If you are on the right and you have succumbed to this newfangled way of dealing with things you don't like, you are the problem. You can be conservative and also accept these authorities. They are not mutually exclusive, despite the efforts of today's rightie echo chamber to convince you they are. You are being hoodwinked, friend.
 
It's one thing to claim that the fields of academia and journalism are biased to the left (though one might consider why that is). It's an entirely different thing to claim such fields aren't credible because of that bias.
 
WakeandBake said:
this. If you are on the right and you have succumbed to this newfangled way of dealing with things you don't like, you are the problem. You can be conservative and also accept these authorities. They are not mutually exclusive, despite the efforts of today's rightie echo chamber to convince you they are. You are being hoodwinked, friend.
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We as a society have gone from conservative and liberal ideologies on how to fix societal problems to conservative and liberal ideologies on what are facts and the basis for calling something a fact is context dependent.
 
Cuba, among many things, is a good hypocrite measure for Trump, with his stance on Cuba vs his stance on Russia. Any republican geopolitical scholars like to tackle that?
 
Despite sailor having linked the nuttiest thing I have ever seen (conservopedia), he has by far the most rational opinions on our relationship with Russia.

Some of you guys are so butt hurt over what you feel is Russia costing Hillary the election that you have lost all perspective.
 
RChildress107 said:
So no evidence that contradicts CIA's conclusion or suggests CIA bias then. I'm comfortable with my appeal to authority disagreeing with your appeal to what you wish to be true.
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I am not appealing to anything. I am suspending judgment until further evidence. The Russians certainly try to hack us, as we try to hack them. Did their hacking influence or sway our election? That is the question.
 
knowell said:
Despite sailor having linked the nuttiest thing I have ever seen (conservopedia), he has by far the most rational opinions on our relationship with Russia.

Some of you guys are so butt hurt over what you feel is Russia costing Hillary the election that you have lost all perspective.
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What was nutty about the article I linked? I had never read any other articles on conservopedia.
 
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