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OFFICIAL Wake-Syracuse Game Thread

PhDeac said:
His first teams in those stops weren't this bad.
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His first Fordham team was 0-11. His first Richmond team was 3-8, 0-8. His second BG team was 2-10.

So yes, his first team at two stops were this bad. His second team at his 3rd stop was this bad.
 
bluefish said:
Watched the first half on the Wake network. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I am seriously reluctant to start slurping the Clawson Kool-Aid.
I'm willing to give him some time, as he most certainly deserves it, but he almost got Wolford killed before half-time.

When he says changes are going to happen, or whatever, I hope he is referring to the coach whose outside left tackle sort of meandered aimlessly to the right while his QB was getting blindsided from the left. I always took exception to being beheaded from behind. I imagine Wolford must feel the same way.
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The sack that caused the interception was not Smith's fault.

Let's not kid ourselves. The coaching staff is not doing a perfect job this season. But Clawson has a system that has worked at 3 previous stops. Each school had 2 good seasons in the first 4 years. We are recruiting at a level above what Wake has done in the past.

So chill the fuck out.
 
DeaconSig said:
His first Fordham team was 0-11. His first Richmond team was 3-8, 0-8. His second BG team was 2-10.

So yes, his first team at two stops were this bad. His second team at his 3rd stop was this bad.
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This is a historically bad offense. I looked at the numbers for those teams. They were bad but not like this.
 
DeaconSig said:
The sack that caused the interception was not Smith's fault.

Let's not kid ourselves. The coaching staff is not doing a perfect job this season. But Clawson has a system that has worked at 3 previous stops. Each school had 2 good seasons in the first 4 years. We are recruiting at a level above what Wake has done in the past.

So chill the fuck out.
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Positions must be staked out now so that if Clawson's tenure doesn't work out, the claims can be made that only a few were objective and demanded accountability from the start.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Positions must be staked out now so that if Clawson's tenure doesn't work out, the claims can be made that only a few were objective and demanded accountability from the start.
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Far too many "fans" over the past five years on here would rather be right than good.
 
PhDeac said:
This is a historically bad offense. I looked at the numbers for those teams. They were bad but not like this.
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0-11 is 0-11. 2-10 is 2-10. He has been hired with teams that have been in the shitter, much like ours has been.

I'm not delving into Fordham's football history to see if they played a true freshman at QB (and a mediocre true freshman at that) with no impact WRs and a shitty OL. If you want to waste your time on that in a quest to prove a point about Coach Clawson that escapes me at the moment, have at it.

I've not been a huge fan of what I have seen from the staff's offensive plan so far this year, even if you subtract out the huge talent issues. But we have pedestrian receivers, very little talent at QB, and a line that needs no more discussion. Coach Clawson has obviously decided he would rather throw Helms, Harris, and Terry to the wolves with the hope that those guys are significantly better next year and the year after instead of trying to patchwork together an OL and an offensive system that might take us from 2-10 to 5-7. I'm not sure that's how I would do it, but I'm not going to argue with a guy that has produced results at every other stop where he was a head coach.
 
A few observations/reactions to the game, program & previous posts:
1) NFL combine #'s would suggest our guys weren't weak under previous S&C coach.
2) WFU training table, ie. food for athletes is non-existent.
3) Coach has two options: abandon his system-which offensively is vanilla if you know anything about FB, or try to install something to be successful this year. (Problem with that is getting it to marry up to his current system of play calling)
4) Defense has been adequate all year-especially considering the lack of help from the other side of the ball. (Sometimes they call packages/blitzes that put players in a position where they can't be successful, especially in passing situations)
5) The OC better get more creative to not only protect the Q, but his job. Inside zone and pocket passing are not what should be on the play call sheet when your OL sucks.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Positions must be staked out now so that if Clawson's tenure doesn't work out, the claims can be made that only a few were objective and demanded accountability from the start.
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LOL I wonder who this might be referring to
 
To follow up, Ph, I'm not really sure what your end-goal is here. I think I have a pretty strong history of taking your side versus those of the raging redneck yahoos that you seem to rile up on a consistent basis (oh hey, Brad, you fucking imbecile). But I said before the season we would be fucking terrible, and you said (paraphrasing) "we haven't seen the players with this coaching staff- we shouldn't sell the team short." Well, we are terrible. Historically terrible. Dead fucking last terrible. So with all due respect to the #undefeated nonsense, it seems like you were a bit off on the preseason predictions. Which is fine. But then you appear to hold the staff accountable to the fact that they didn't mean your preseasons goals- goals that were based on nothing but a wild guess that this staff would turn chicken shit into chicken salad.

I have seen posts of yours that make the same statements about basketball- we shouldn't lower our expectations for this year because we don't know well the players will play now that Coach Manning is coaching them. Even though we do know that based on recruiting rankings and how the players have played to this point in their careers, we are most likely not a top 100 team in college basketball this year. And when we inevitably go 12-16 or some such record, you will make comments about what the coaching staff did to fuck up the season.

We are at an interesting point in Wake's football history. Save maybe Coach Dooley, Wake has never had a coach with a history of winning conference championships at multiple schools prior to arriving at Wake (and I believe VT was an independent when Coach Dooley was there, so he probably doesn't even count either). This isn't like [Redacted]'s first year, when we sucked, recruited like shit, and had no history upon which to hope that [Redacted] would turn things around. In football, we have a legit reason to believe that at the end of 3rd or 4th season, Wake will be a competitive team in the ACC- winning between 6-9 games. I'm not going to expect a conference championship, but I think he has every chance to put together a solid program that can be expected to consistently make bowl games.

This year was a wash before the first kickoff. If the offense is still historically terrible next year, then start to worry.
 
I guess when you are #undefeated, winless isn't as bad as really really really shitty
 
I'm just putting what is happening in perspective using stats. Others throw glitter and sunshine on it that's their approach.

The idea that a poster has some nefarious end goal is silly. We don't matter. Either way, we all want to win. We just come here to talk about what we think it will take to win.

I have confidence in Clawson. That's why I don't think this is the best he can do. I don't see him rationalizing what we see on the field. I don't know why some of you are.
 
i'm not rationalizing. you're rationalizing.

2>0
 
I look at it, naively, like this: you can throw in some gimmicks to mask some weaknesses, steal an extra win or two, and build confidence early; or you can be disciplined with installing your system, better evaluate current personnel, and motivate younger players to legitimately get better in the offseason. I think Clawson's track record shows the latter approach. Time will tell if that works. I hope guys like Terry really get after it in the offseason to get better.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I look at it, naively, like this: you can throw in some gimmicks to mask some weaknesses, steal an extra win or two, and build confidence early; or you can be disciplined with installing your system, better evaluate current personnel, and motivate younger players to legitimately get better in the offseason. I think Clawson's track record shows the latter approach. Time will tell if that works. I hope guys like Terry really get after it in the offseason to get better.
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Good post. Clawson is more concerned about building the program for the long term than trying to go 4-8 as opposed to 2-10 this season and I'm glad he is.
 
deputydeacon said:
A few observations/reactions to the game, program & previous posts:
1) NFL combine #'s would suggest our guys weren't weak under previous S&C coach.
2) WFU training table, ie. food for athletes is non-existent.
3) Coach has two options: abandon his system-which offensively is vanilla if you know anything about FB, or try to install something to be successful this year. (Problem with that is getting it to marry up to his current system of play calling)
4) Defense has been adequate all year-especially considering the lack of help from the other side of the ball. (Sometimes they call packages/blitzes that put players in a position where they can't be successful, especially in passing situations)
5) The OC better get more creative to not only protect the Q, but his job. Inside zone and pocket passing are not what should be on the play call sheet when your OL sucks.
Click to expand...

Yes
 
deputydeacon said:
A few observations/reactions to the game, program & previous posts:
1) NFL combine #'s would suggest our guys weren't weak under previous S&C coach.
2) WFU training table, ie. food for athletes is non-existent.
3) Coach has two options: abandon his system-which offensively is vanilla if you know anything about FB, or try to install something to be successful this year. (Problem with that is getting it to marry up to his current system of play calling)
4) Defense has been adequate all year-especially considering the lack of help from the other side of the ball. (Sometimes they call packages/blitzes that put players in a position where they can't be successful, especially in passing situations)
5) The OC better get more creative to not only protect the Q, but his job. Inside zone and pocket passing are not what should be on the play call sheet when your OL sucks.
Click to expand...

Being fair to Clawson, how much have the OL bench press number increased since he came here? They don't appear to be pushing anybody around. Al Groh had a system, but he wouldn't change his plan from the start of the season or the start of a game. The QB were not allowed to audible. If you look at the Clemson game from '81, we start off marching down the field throwing to the TEs. Then Clemson rushes LBs from the A gap and our O is finished. It starts at the 4:55 mark and you can turn it off a minute later. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22xq-bEmsL8
 
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Deacfreak07 said:
I look at it, naively, like this: you can throw in some gimmicks to mask some weaknesses, steal an extra win or two, and build confidence early; or you can be disciplined with installing your system, better evaluate current personnel, and motivate younger players to legitimately get better in the offseason. I think Clawson's track record shows the latter approach. Time will tell if that works. I hope guys like Terry really get after it in the offseason to get better.
Click to expand...

This is how I see it. Especially given his comments at the start of the second half.
 
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