Official Wake v. Duke Game Thread, Duke Wins 79-71 !

[wfupdx]

- Watson killed us with decision making
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He plays reasonable defense, but is a subpar dribbler, terrible shooter (both 3pt and free throws) and can't finish at the rim. Based on a 2 year sample size I think what you see is what you will essentially get---there is unlikely to be major improvement. Between CMM and Watson we must have one of the worst shooting 2G rotation for any major conference (let along good high school team). It can't be overstated how difficult it is to win games when your guards can't hit wide open shots and routinely hit 1 of 2 free throws--it just kills momentum/spirit. WE MUST improve this roster spot

 

[liveanddiedeac]

He plays reasonable defense, but is a subpar dribbler, terrible shooter (both 3pt and free throws) and can't finish at the rim. Based on a 2 year sample size I think what you see is what you will essentially get---there is unlikely to be major improvement. Between CMM and Watson we must have one of the worst shooting 2G rotation for any major conference (let along good high school team). It can't be overstated how difficult it is to win games when your guards can't hit wide open shots and routinely hit 1 of 2 free throws--it just kills momentum/spirit. WE MUST improve this roster spot

The hope I have for next year is that the transfer and the incoming freshman upgrade our shooting and it makes a big difference. I know the hype for next year's new comers isn't very high, but good shooters can only help this team. For the most part Devin played well this year, but I don't think he leaves a void that can't be filled adequately by Collins and Moore, Codi really struggled this year, so no real impact there. Hudson had an opportunity to be an impact player for us next year, but he's gone, so that could hurt. Putting some good shooters around 3 promising rising sophomores could lead to an improved team, but Manning is going to have to step it up as a head coach next year.

 

[Deaconblue]

Crawford had a pretty bad game. Bad shooting % (6-15), 2-7 threes, taking way too many shots without letting anybody else touch the ball, 6 TO, 3 assists. That many turnovers from the point guard is way, way, way bad.

Rondale's 0-5 and 0-3 shooting was also not good.

 

[HONDO2]

live -

The hope I have for next year is that the transfer and the incoming freshman upgrade our shooting and it makes a big difference. I know the hype for next year's new comers isn't very high, but good shooters can only help this team. For the most part Devin played well this year, but I don't think he leaves a void that can't be filled adequately by Collins and Moore, Codi really struggled this year, so no real impact there. Hudson had an opportunity to be an impact player for us next year, but he's gone, so that could hurt. Putting some good shooters around 3 promising rising sophomores could lead to an improved team, but Manning is going to have to step it up as a head coach next year.

And who's gonna teach this team how to play defense ? Heck, who's gonna teach Manning how to teach defense ? Who's gonna teach this team how to box-out and rebound ? Manning ? Who tutored the class this season ? Who's gonna teach this team how to play a 2-guard line-up ?

 

[RacerDeac]

Rondale was one last middle finger from [Redacted] to Wake Forest. The fact that some Wake fans got the least bit "excited" about his contributions earlier this season is telling of just how low this program has been and remains.

 

[Deaconblue]

Chill or somebody needs to sit Crawford down and make him understand the importance of getting other players involved at the offensive end. BC dribbling the ball upcourt and heaving a long three with 20 seconds on the shot clock is not a good offense. Chill was a stone cold assassin as a player, but he also understood that it was important for the other players to get some shots, particularly early in games.

When there is a mismatch inside and the offense is supposed to be played inside out and the ball never gets inside, that is on the point guard. Devin was abusing Plumlee and anybody else Duke put on him early, both with layups and the 6-8 foot jumpers. The point guard should not be taking the most shots on the team, except (maybe) free throws.

 

[Demonwolverine]

Crawford had a pretty bad game. Bad shooting % (6-15), 2-7 threes, taking way too many shots without letting anybody else touch the ball, 6 TO, 3 assists. That many turnovers from the point guard is way, way, way bad.

Rondale's 0-5 and 0-3 shooting was also not good.

It's hard to rip a freshman having a bad game in Cameron. Especially one that we have thrown into the fire to be a catch all for everything this team lacks.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

live -



And who's gonna teach this team how to play defense ? Heck, who's gonna teach Manning how to teach defense ? Who's gonna teach this team how to box-out and rebound ? Manning ? Who tutored the class this season ? Who's gonna teach this team how to play a 2-guard line-up ?

" but Manning is going to have to step it up as a head coach next year."

 

[wfupdx]

Crawford had a pretty bad game. Bad shooting % (6-15), 2-7 threes, taking way too many shots without letting anybody else touch the ball, 6 TO, 3 assists. That many turnovers from the point guard is way, way, way bad.
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Agree. Do think he could have gotten it inside a bit more and took a few bad shots. However, he played a lot of minutes and looked tired and it seemed to impact his jump shot pretty badly. Thought it was a reasonable outing for a frosh PG in Cameron.

 

[Deaconblue]

Agree. Do think he could have gotten it inside a bit more and took a few bad shots. However, he played a lot of minutes and looked tired and it seemed to impact his jump shot pretty badly. Thought it was a reasonable outing for a frosh PG in Cameron.

As the point guard, his dribble it up court and shoot play was not good. Even if he is playing in Cameron for the first time, he is not playing basketball for the first time. He needs to remember that, as the point guard, with the ball in his hands, he needs to get other players involved. It's not a 1 on 5 game. Turnovers can happen as a result of Duke defense. Long, contested threes early in the shot clock have much more to do with the guy who has the ball. If there were less than 5 seconds on the clock and he did that, OK. This is a repeat pattern from the other night when Wake had the ball with 19 seconds left and he held the ball for about 15 secs, then jacked a long, contested three. It's become a pattern that needs to be ended. If he is tired, all the more reason to not take a shot, but look for someone else, who maybe hasn't played as much or isn't as tired.

End of first half vs Pitt, end of 2nd half vs Pitt, end of 1st OT vs Pitt. All misses. End of first half vs VT. I don't like that much "hero ball" from a point guard.

 

[Demonwolverine]

As the point guard, his dribble it up court and shoot play was not good. Even if he is playing in Cameron for the first time, he is not playing basketball for the first time. He needs to remember that, as the point guard, with the ball in his hands, he needs to get other players involved. It's not a 1 on 5 game. Turnovers can happen as a result of Duke defense. Long, contested threes early in the shot clock have much more to do with the guy who has the ball. If there were less than 5 seconds on the clock and he did that, OK. This is a repeat pattern from the other night when Wake had the ball with 19 seconds left and he held the ball for about 15 secs, then jacked a long, contested three. It's become a pattern that needs to be ended. If he is tired, all the more reason to not take a shot, but look for someone else, who maybe hasn't played as much or isn't as tired.

End of first half vs Pitt, end of 2nd half vs Pitt, end of 1st OT vs Pitt. All misses. End of first half vs VT. I don't like that much "hero ball" from a point guard.

He certainly has his lapses, and they can be frustrating. But honestly, when DT is mailing it in, Dinos and Wilbekin can't get a shot unless somebody makes something happen (usually BC), and Codi is in his own little world, it's pretty easy to see why our freshman guard might try and do too much.

One positive I saw last night that I haven't seen mentioned and will probably get lost in this thread, but I thought Wilbekin played the best D he's ever played last night. Also thought Dinos was fighting for rebounds, he's just not very adept at reeling them in yet. He's clearly trying to work on it, but it's not something you can pick up over night.

 

[wfupdx]

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One positive I saw last night that I haven't seen mentioned and will probably get lost in this thread, but I thought Wilbekin played the best D he's ever played last night. Also thought Dinos was fighting for rebounds, he's just not very adept at reeling them in yet. He's clearly trying to work on it, but it's not something you can pick up over night.

Perhaps I'm in minority but I do think Dinos has improved on his overall defense, rebounding, and general strength/toughness (remember his first failed dunk attempt as a freshman). His rushed 3pt attempts (which are supposedly the strength of his game) are often not helpful as they are taken at inopportune times and often lead to fast breaks etc. Assuming he stays I think we see continued development of his game in a more rounded fashion which will be helpful overall.

 

[sailordeac]

I too find Crawford's habit of letting the ball roll for a while before picking it up obnoxious and counter productive. He needs to pick the ball up immediately and be dribbling down the court looking how our team is setting up, how they are being defended, and how he can get the ball to his teammates in good attacking or scoring position, rather than running along and thinking about when he's gonna pick it up. It's just a distraction from being able to pay attention to what he really needs to be concentrating on.

 

[Deaconblue]

Devin had a double-double (16 pts, on 7-11 shoooting, 13 rebs) and five assists in 33 minutes. If everybody "mailed it in" like DT, Wake would be a lot better off. Yes, he was sloppy with the ball several times. Not good. But the guards also have to be looking (demanding?) to get the ball from him.

 

[AlphaDeac]

I too find Crawford's habit of letting the ball roll for a while before picking it up obnoxious and counter productive. He needs to pick the ball up immediately and be dribbling down the court looking how our team is setting up, how they are being defended, and how he can get the ball to his teammates in good attacking or scoring position, rather than running along and thinking about when he's gonna pick it up. It's just a distraction from being able to pay attention to what he really needs to be concentrating on.

The funny thing is that he will save one second by doing that and then spend five seconds dribbling around converging defenders rather than passing the ball to an open teammate. It's maddening to be down one or two possessions with the clock as the enemy and then seeing your pg waste valuable seconds dribbling into double coverage rather than getting the ball to an open teammate.

 

[Deactildeath]

We played like we had nothing to lose at the outset of the game last night and the outside shots were falling, but as the game progressed in the 2nd half, the team puckered up and couldn't finish. They truly didn't believe or trust in themselves. Be honest, did you trust them?

 

[ChrisL68]

The funny thing is that he will save one second by doing that and then spend five seconds dribbling around converging defenders rather than passing the ball to an open teammate. It's maddening to be down one or two possessions with the clock as the enemy and then seeing your pg waste valuable seconds dribbling into double coverage rather than getting the ball to an open teammate.

There seems to be no effort by the coaching staff to enforce any discipline. Can anybody see another acc programwhere a player continues to do something dumb like this and it not being rectified?

 

[Pilchard]

Crawford had a pretty bad game. Bad shooting % (6-15), 2-7 threes, taking way too many shots without letting anybody else touch the ball, 6 TO, 3 assists. That many turnovers from the point guard is way, way, way bad.

Rondale's 0-5 and 0-3 shooting was also not good.

Thornton beat Crawford also got beaten on multiple drives and cuts to the basket when Duke made their decisive run. Agree that Crawford gets some slack because it was his first game at Cameron, but he was really loose with the ball throughout 6 TOs may be kind as other turnovers were indirectly caused by his play. Crawford has played a full season now at PG, and he remains far too loose with the ball, and he still has no clue how to handle end of clock situations. Again, against Duke with just less then 5 seconds left in the first half, (plenty of time to get to the basket and draw a foul or even pass), Crawford received a pass at the 3/4 court and threw up desperation 3 from 30 feet; he has repeatedly taken poor shots when the ball is in his hands when the clock is ticking.

Crawford is a vexing player because the potential is obvious. He has good size for a PG, he has the ability to take over a game (the best defensive team in the conference is UVA, and he lit them up), he sees the court very well, makes passes that only great players dare to make, can shoot (when he takes good shots) and can go to the basket. Game after game, he continues to make big mistakes. Hope it's part of a learning process that can take hold over the off-season because he really could be special. Fear that he will always be a heart-breaker (for WF).

 

[Tin Cup]

Thornton beat Crawford also got beaten on multiple drives and cuts to the basket when Duke made their decisive run. Agree that Crawford gets some slack because it was his first game at Cameron, but he was really loose with the ball throughout 6 TOs may be kind as other turnovers were indirectly caused by his play. Crawford has played a full season now at PG, and he remains far too loose with the ball, and he still has no clue how to handle end of clock situations. Again, against Duke with just less then 5 seconds left in the first half, (plenty of time to get to the basket and draw a foul or even pass), Crawford received a pass at the 3/4 court and threw up desperation 3 from 30 feet; he has repeatedly taken poor shots when the ball is in his hands when the clock is ticking.

Crawford is a vexing player because the potential is obvious. He has good size for a PG, he has the ability to take over a game (the best defensive team in the conference is UVA, and he lit them up), he sees the court very well, makes passes that only great players dare to make, can shoot (when he takes good shots) and can go to the basket. Game after game, he continues to make big mistakes. Hope it's part of a learning process that can take hold over the off-season because he really could be special. Fear that he will always be a heart-breaker (for WF).

The difference between the Crawford high school scouting report and the Crawford we saw all season was striking.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

We played like we had nothing to lose at the outset of the game last night and the outside shots were falling, but as the game progressed in the 2nd half, the team puckered up and couldn't finish. They truly didn't believe or trust in themselves. Be honest, did you trust them?

No way, no how. If we'd been up 10 with 5 minutes to play I still wouldn't have bet on us winning, not even factoring in the venue.