Officially Unofficial Syracuse Game Thread

[WFUtoUSC]

Elite athletic program? LOL. A lot of posters here live in fantasyland. WF is never going to be anything more than mid to lower-tier in this ACC in football & basketball. That's the bottom line. To believe otherwise is just to set yourself up for perpetual disappointment & frustration. It hasn't happened in the last 60 years of the ACC....when the obstacles facing a school like WF were nowhere nearly as tough as they are in the money-driven world of big-time college athletics today.....and it isn't going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

What a sad, miserable life you must lead

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

 

[bobknightfan]

What a sad, miserable life you must lead

On the contrary, I am extremely contented. Unlike many of the youngsters who post here, I didn't get everything I wanted all my life....so losing a few ballgames that I wanted to win didn't result in a life-disturbing crisis for me. Some of you have not yet learned that just because you want something, it doesn't mean that you can necessarily have it. And if you wanted an elite athletic program, you picked the wrong school when you picked Wake Forest. You will eventually figure that out, if you live long enough. It takes some people longer than others.

 

[DCDeac]

I agree with this and think that recruiting Woods, Washington, and Mitchell has sent a pretty clear message that we can replace these guys if they don't improve. That being said, I kind of would like to see us hold on to Rondale. I'm a bit fan of improvement. Hudson and McClinton, IMO, have regressed since they have been on campus, but I'm not ready to close the book on Rondale yet.

Perhaps. I never really bought into either of the extreme Rondale sides. I don't think he was pure garbage before, and I don't think he's a potential impact player now. His ceiling still looks like mediocre ACC bench player that a good team would never want to rely on to me, but he's certainly improved. It's easy to forget how much easier it is to be a nobody coming off the bench than to be a consistent performer.

I'm still seriously wondering where this game ranks in the history of Wake Forest games. I hit up our worst losses - the UVA game last year, some other games where we were in the 30's and 40's in scoring... I can't find any game where no starter or 6th man minutes-wise had 3 buckets.

I get the Manning bashing but the idea that this loss had anything to do with lineups, systems, coaching decisions, etc - is just laughable to me. It's not like guys were hot and he was benching them, or we went with some crazy starting lineup, sat back in a zone and let them rain 3's... We simply had 8 players get 10+ minutes who played like absolute dogshit. Unprecedented dogshit.

To me it's much more destructive than lineups or coaching. Before today there was at least the (declining) thought that the players bought into the system, that we were a tougher team under Manning, that we were solid in places but being crippled by certain underperforming players.

Today looked like the players didn't give a shit, Manning had no control and couldn't decide whether to bench people for ignoring him or leave them out to suffer. Devin reverted back to shouting at the refs and acting out, Codi was shooting 3's, nobody had enough pride to even try to stop the showtime dunk-fest the game degenerated into.

Maybe they all got hammered last night. Maybe something is going on between the old guard and the new guard. Maybe Manning is losing the team for being too much of a hard-ass or they just don't believe in him.

Whatever it is, it's hard to believe there isn't something going on behind what might have been their worst performance in a decade or more.

 

[DeaconSig]

I agree with this and think that recruiting Woods, Washington, and Mitchell has sent a pretty clear message that we can replace these guys if they don't improve. That being said, I kind of would like to see us hold on to Rondale. I'm a bit fan of improvement. Hudson and McClinton, IMO, have regressed since they have been on campus, but I'm not ready to close the book on Rondale yet.

You are assuming Woods, Washington, and Mitchell don't suck as well. They probably do. Their rankings are as bad or worse than the guys we have now that suck.

 

[Strickland33]

You are assuming Woods, Washington, and Mitchell don't suck as well. They probably do. Their rankings are as bad or worse than the guys we have now that suck.

Who are you referring to? Because I'm pretty sure that's not exactly true. We're not talking about replacements for CMM, BC, DM, or JC - so we're left with Crab, Greg, and Rondale.

Hudson reclassified twice and was basically unranked in each of those years; it's impressive really. Last year was a surprise in terms of outperforming his ranking, but it appears that he is who he is at this stage and that's not very good, IMO.

McClinton's ranking doesn't really matter because it's pretty clear that he's nowhere near the same player that he was in high school (somewhat akin to what happened with Cameron Stanley after his injuries). I don't think that claim is particularly controversial.

Rondale was unranked from an unknown program. Anything he gives us outperforms his ranking for this reason.

Woods, Washington, and Mitchell are all consensus 3-star players, with both Woods and Mitchell flirting with top-100/150 rankings depending on what service you trust. Analysts whose opinions I respect have had great things to say about Washington. I've watched Woods's freshmen tape and it has convinced me that he is going to be capable of, at the very least, giving us Hudson's production on better percentages. Mitchell is a wildcard, but he is also a Rivals top-150 player, so he may be one of the more qualified recruits by the numbers (outside of SJM). I can't comment one way or the other, though, because I can't find any recent tape on him and he's well into his senior year.

Just my two cents.

 

[Ayo]

Hudson reclassified twice and was basically unranked in each of those years; it's impressive really. Last year was a surprise in terms of outperforming his ranking, but it appears that he is who he is at this stage and that's not very good, IMO.

I wouldn't even say he outperformed his ranking. He was a below average player last year and is well below average / awful this year.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

lololol at all the old fogies claiming they'll quit Wake sports because of this game. This was bad, but it's not nearly as bad as we've been before.

 

[LilburnDeac]

On the contrary, I am extremely contented.

Except for the 20+ years you had a temper tantrum about Carl Tacy getting fired.

 

[Strickland33]

I wouldn't even say he outperformed his ranking. He was a below average player last year and is well below average / awful this year.

My criteria for outperforming rankings is simply that most high major players are at least 3-star prospects. To be unranked and averaging 8 ppg in the ACC is a decent accomplishment in my book.

And I agree with you that he is (and probably was) a below average player, but until the last two games a majority of the board probably disagreed. And, let's be real, the next time he goes 2-5 and hits a shot in the second half, the majority will probably change its tune with arguments about how stats are dumb and he's just streaky.

 

[DeacsPop]

Sad thing is Manning is probably the best coach we could get at the time with how our fans treated our previous coach.

Huh? Please tell me ur not serious. Our former Coach was a joke. I told myself I would support Manning 100% for four years. We've made progress, I dare anyone to say we haven't though no doubt today was a step back. The ACC is the best Conference in CBB. To compete we need patience with our youth and hope we can land some solid recruits.

 

[DistrictDeacon]

On the contrary, I am extremely contented. Unlike many of the youngsters who post here, I didn't get everything I wanted all my life....so losing a few ballgames that I wanted to win didn't result in a life-disturbing crisis for me. Some of you have not yet learned that just because you want something, it doesn't mean that you can necessarily have it. And if you wanted an elite athletic program, you picked the wrong school when you picked Wake Forest. You will eventually figure that out, if you live long enough. It takes some people longer than others.

Says the man who threw/ continues to throw tantrums over a college basketball coach and potential presidential nominee who he had no personal connection with.

 

[bobknightfan]

Except for the 20+ years you had a temper tantrum about Carl Tacy getting fired.

Carl Tacy wasn't fired. That misstatement has been corrected on these boards at least 7 or 8 times. And I thought you've followed WF basketball for a long time. You should already know that.

And it's 30+ years now. Carl resigned on July 15, 1985. But that has nothing to do with being contented. Actually, not giving a shit about WF basketball can only improve the contentment in one's life. You should try it sometime. I didn't feel any stress at all after that shit-show this afternoon. As a matter of fact, it was rather comical, because I knew that the usual suspects on the boards were going to go ballistic again. The only difference in this game was that they got beat so badly that no remotely sane person could whine & bitch about the officials (though numbers made a feeble effort to do so once or twice).....and that is an extreme rarity with WF fans on this board.

 

[Strattocaster]

I 100% support Manning. I think the guys he's been bringing in are a totally different level of player than the other guys, with the exception of DT, who I support and appreciate. That being said, Manning is making a big mistake continuing to play Codi this way. I say play for the future and hand the team to Crawford.

I agree with playing Crawford. Am not sold on Manning. We are seeing some serious issues. Don't agree that we are bringing in better players.

 

[OfficialA]

That's gotta be 78-79 and 79-80. We were playing virtually all freshmen and sophomores at a time when fresh/sophs couldn't compete with upperclassmen. We knew we had good talent though, and it showed the next two years. There was steady improvement under Tacy.

Tacy's teams seldom underperdormed expectations and often outperformed.

 

[Deacon92]

Am I wrong or was the trivia question wrong today too?

Duncan didn't lead the team in rebounding and scoring 4 straight years?

 

[Strattocaster]

Majority of blame for the team has to fall on Manning. The real Buzz took over an awful program & looks like he may already be taking his team to the tournament. College hoops isn't built to require years & years to be good.

I have a buddy who went to marquette. He was devastated when Buzz left. He is a great coach.

 

[ChrisL68]

Tacy's teams seldom underperformed expectations and often outperformed.

That's kind of revisionist history. Tacy was a good coach, but his teams usually did better in December than March just like all Wake teams.

He finished about 35 games under .500 in the ACC over his career, so if he always outperformed expectations then those expectations must not have been much.

But I can think of a team that was ranked in the top 5 that ended up 16-10 (5-9) in the ACC.

Even the final 8 team in 77 finished the season 2-5. Probably the only time that has ever happened.

 

[OfficialA]

That's kind of revisionist history. Tacy was a good coach, but his teams usually did better in December than March just like all Wake teams.

He finished about 35 games under .500 in the ACC over his career, so if he always outperformed expectations then those expectations must not have been much.

But I can think of a team that was ranked in the top 5 that ended up 16-10 (5-9) in the ACC.

Even the final 8 team in 77 finished the season 2-5. Probably the only time that has ever happened.

Lots of big 4 wins against touted teAms, rarely blown out. Tacy typically had control of his teams.

 

[diverdeac]

Tracy's team knew how to feed the post usually an undersized forward. If the 3 point line existed then wake would have been better. Serious shooters.

 

[LilburnDeac]

Am I wrong or was the trivia question wrong today too?

Duncan didn't lead the team in rebounding and scoring 4 straight years?

Pretty sure that Childress was the leading scorer in 94 and 95.