Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

[Jamison2Carter]

Sorry I have to get back to this horse shit.

1. The "back story" involves her former landlords talking shit about her because she couldn't pay rent when her husband got sick.
2. Bad employee? No way she got raped, she's just been holding a grudge for 25 years.
3. Misdemeanor "Check Fraud" dropped - expunged charges from writing a bad check. Which has fuck all to do with rape, you classist fuck.

You're not fucking objective in the least, you're just regurgitating all the dumb character assassination shit the media is spewing out.

I’m a prosecutor. I have handled (and tried to verdict) adult sexual assaults. I have prosecuted cases that relied almost entirely on the word of the victim. It’s a case-by-case analysis. The tone, character, genuineness, etc. of the accuser matter a ton to juries. Those same qualities in the accused can matter too, but of course the accused bears no burden to prove their innocence.

There’s possibly more to come out in this Biden case, but as far as what’s available in the public record - I don’t even think you have probable cause. At least in criminal court - her reporting harassment, then a year later reporting rape when it appeared that Biden would be the nominee, would destroy her credibility. Telling multiple versions of a story where major details differ; in this case the crux of an allegation, is a serious problem.

The proof necessary to prove rape is the same as any other crime. “Believe all accusers” doesn’t seem to apply to robbery, burglary, murder (witnesses), larceny, arson, fraud, etc.

The longtime marginalization of rape and domestic violence accusers doesn’t mean they should automatically be believed. It means they should be heard, treated with dignity, taken seriously, and have their allegations vetted like anything else instead of dismissed out of hand. But it does not entitle them to a different standard of proof.

You don’t have to do what I do for a living to have an informed opinion about this; but it may be worth considering the above.

 

[RJKarl]

How dare you infuse reality!!!!

To the rack!

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I don't really give a shit about the limits of legalism, because no one is on trial. Being honest, the more that Biden supporters tear down the character of Reade, the more sympathetic I find her. We're standing right on the corner of classism and authoritarianism. A suggestion from me would be that Biden supporters stick to the lack of evidence in the charges, rather than personally insulting Reade, because that tactic just makes you look like a prejudiced asshole.

 

[Coach O]

I’m a prosecutor. I have handled (and tried to verdict) adult sexual assaults. I have prosecuted cases that relied almost entirely on the word of the victim. It’s a case-by-case analysis. The tone, character, genuineness, etc. of the accuser matter a ton to juries. Those same qualities in the accused can matter too, but of course the accused bears no burden to prove their innocence.

There’s possibly more to come out in this Biden case, but as far as what’s available in the public record - I don’t even think you have probable cause. At least in criminal court - her reporting harassment, then a year later reporting rape when it appeared that Biden would be the nominee, would destroy her credibility. Telling multiple versions of a story where major details differ; in this case the crux of an allegation, is a serious problem.

The proof necessary to prove rape is the same as any other crime. “Believe all accusers” doesn’t seem to apply to robbery, burglary, murder (witnesses), larceny, arson, fraud, etc.

The longtime marginalization of rape and domestic violence accusers doesn’t mean they should automatically be believed. It means they should be heard, treated with dignity, taken seriously, and have their allegations vetted like anything else instead of dismissed out of hand. But it does not entitle them to a different standard of proof.

You don’t have to do what I do for a living to have an informed opinion about this; but it may be worth considering the above.

this. X1000

 

[PhDeac]

I don't really give a shit about the limits of legalism, because no one is on trial. Being honest, the more that Biden supporters tear down the character of Reade, the more sympathetic I find her. We're standing right on the corner of classism and authoritarianism. A suggestion from me would be that Biden supporters stick to the lack of evidence in the charges, rather than personally insulting Reade, because that tactic just makes you look like a prejudiced asshole.

If Biden is actually suspected of committing sexual assault, why wouldn't you want him put on trial? If he's found guilty, put in jail just like Weinstein and Cosby.

 

[ChrisL68]

I agree that beyond a reasonable doubt isn't the standard of judgment here. Her claims are simply not credible or believable. And the issues pointed out that politico article is for her manipulative behavior and predilection towards lying as characterized by numerous people in her life over past several years as much as our favorite mdeac wants to try to characterize it about her not paying rent.

 

[RJKarl]

Jamison, I know you are a prosecutor, but beyond a reasonable doubt isn't the marker for civil court. Do you think she would have a winnable case in civil court?

 

[ConnorEl]

I’m a prosecutor. I have handled (and tried to verdict) adult sexual assaults. I have prosecuted cases that relied almost entirely on the word of the victim. It’s a case-by-case analysis. The tone, character, genuineness, etc. of the accuser matter a ton to juries. Those same qualities in the accused can matter too, but of course the accused bears no burden to prove their innocence.

There’s possibly more to come out in this Biden case, but as far as what’s available in the public record - I don’t even think you have probable cause. At least in criminal court - her reporting harassment, then a year later reporting rape when it appeared that Biden would be the nominee, would destroy her credibility. Telling multiple versions of a story where major details differ; in this case the crux of an allegation, is a serious problem.

The proof necessary to prove rape is the same as any other crime. “Believe all accusers” doesn’t seem to apply to robbery, burglary, murder (witnesses), larceny, arson, fraud, etc.

The longtime marginalization of rape and domestic violence accusers doesn’t mean they should automatically be believed. It means they should be heard, treated with dignity, taken seriously, and have their allegations vetted like anything else instead of dismissed out of hand. But it does not entitle them to a different standard of proof.

You don’t have to do what I do for a living to have an informed opinion about this; but it may be worth considering the above.

But are you a real lawyer????

 

[PhDeac]

[h=1]Seeking: Big Democratic Ideas That Make Everything Better[/h]
By the end of primary season, the Democratic Party had all but settled on a conventional center-left agenda. But the pandemic is forcing the Biden campaign and other leaders to redraw plans for 2021.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/us/politics/joe-biden-economy-democrats.html

Mr. Biden’s campaign has been rapidly expanding its policy-drafting apparatus, with the former vice president promising on Monday to detail plans for “the right kind of economic recovery” within weeks. He has already effectively shed his primary-season theme of restoring political normalcy to the country, replacing it with promises of sweeping economic change.



On Wednesday, Mr. Biden signaled anew that he was willing to reopen his policy platform, announcing six policy task forces — covering issues including health care, climate and immigration, as well as the economy — that combine his core supporters with left-wing allies of Senator Bernie Sanders, his vanquished primary opponent.


The formation of those committees was aimed in part at easing divisions between Democrats that are already flaring on subjects like the size of a potential infrastructure bill and the intractable issue of health care. Despite having dashed Mr. Sanders’s populist insurgency in the primary, Mr. Biden is still facing loud calls from his party’s activist wing to adopt ideas he has firmly resisted, like single-payer health care.





But in several areas there are already strong signs of consensus within Mr. Biden’s party, as once-cautious electoral and legislative tacticians shed their opposition to huge price tags and disruptive change amid a crisis that has melted traditional obstacles to government action.


Democratic leaders say that if they hold power next January, they must be prepared to move to pump trillions more into the economy; enact infrastructure and climate legislation far larger than they previously envisioned; pass a raft of aggressive worker-protection laws; expand government-backed health insurance and create enormous new investments in public-health jobs, health care facilities and child care programs.


Discussions are also underway, some of them involving Republicans, about policies that would ban stock buybacks and compel big corporations to share more of their profits with workers.

And there is more to come: Interviews with more than a dozen influential lawmakers, union leaders, think tank experts and advisers to Mr. Biden and other senior Democrats revealed an intensifying set of deliberations in the Zoom meetings of Mr. Biden’s campaign, the skeletally staffed offices of Capitol Hill, and a web of conference calls and email chains initiated by powerful Democratic interest groups. Across all of them, there is a sense that Democrats must use the next six months — with an unpredictable campaign still in progress — to prepare to act swiftly in case they get the chance.



“There is a recognition that this event is more transformative than 2008, more transformative than 9/11, more transformative than the fall of the Berlin Wall,” said Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, a centrist Democrat.

The party’s moderates, Mr. Warner said, had begun to think “exponentially bigger” about a legislative vision for overhauling the economy.

 

[Shooshmoo]

Being honest, the more that Biden supporters tear down the character of Reade, the more sympathetic I find her.

This is how to be objective and unbiased, folks

 

[WFcatamount22]

Note to self, if your going to accuse a prominent politician you better be sure as fuck it’s a Republican. Otherwise you’re just a lying whore who cannot be trusted.

 

[Shooshmoo]

*you're

Note to self: Catamount is a moron who apparently forgets that Trump, Fox News, and Trumpublicans exist.

 

[Coach O]

Note to self, if your going to accuse a prominent politician you better be sure as fuck it’s a Republican. Otherwise you’re just a lying whore who cannot be trusted.

How have conservatives treated the 17 or so women who have accused Trump?

I would like any claim of rape/sexual assault against a person running for President (or Supreme Court nominee) to be heard, taken serioulsly and vigorously researched.

What do you think should happen?

 

[BillBrasky]

Note to self, if your going to accuse a prominent politician you better be sure as fuck it’s a Republican. Otherwise you’re just a lying whore who cannot be trusted.

Bad take

While not all Democrats are treated the same, liberals are much more likely to go after their own when it comes to violence towards women. Name one Republican who's been forced out of office for that type of behavior.

 

[TownieDeac]

Bad take

While not all Democrats are treated the same, liberals are much more likely to go after their own when it comes to violence towards women. Name one Republican who's been forced out of office for that type of behavior.

closest i can think of is doug jones winning in alabama

 

[ChrisL68]

closest i can think of is doug jones winning in alabama

He wasn't forced out of office he was defeated by the voters.

 

[birdman]

closest i can think of is doug jones winning in alabama

LOL, by only 20K votes in a special election in December.

But Alabama actually has a good example: Robert Bently resigned because he was caught using government funds to conduct an affair with a staffer. Someone got a recording of him solftly telling the woman over the phone that he wanted to bend her over the governors desk. He didn't quit because of the affair, but because he was probably going to get charged with fraudulent use of government resources if he didn't. Once he resigned they called off the investigation. He was replaced by Kay Ivey, who (Angus are you listening?) has had numerous pictures of her dressing up in blackface in college at Auburn in the 60's released since she took office. Ivey easily won a second term in 2018.

 

[WFcatamount22]

*you're

Note to self: Catamount is a moron who apparently forgets that Trump, Fox News, and Trumpublicans exist.

Outside of one news outlet Ford was treated like a freaking national hero, heaped with praise, showered with cold hard cash,
given private rides on jets, etc....

Reade from the MSM media outlets hasn’t had that extra experience has she?

 

[WFcatamount22]

I do agree that leftist have no problem eating their own, when pubs fall in line tho.

 

[BillBrasky]

LOL, by only 20K votes in a special election in December.

But Alabama actually has a good example: Robert Bently resigned because he was caught using government funds to conduct an affair with a staffer. Someone got a recording of him solftly telling the woman over the phone that he wanted to bend her over the governors desk. He didn't quit because of the affair, but because he was probably going to get charged with fraudulent use of government resources if he didn't. Once he resigned they called off the investigation. He was replaced by Kay Ivey, who (Angus are you listening?) has had numerous pictures of her dressing up in blackface in college at Auburn in the 60's released since she took office. Ivey easily won a second term in 2018.

Yeah buts that’s an affair and misuse of government money. Mark Sanford also got forced out of politics for those reasons.

Violence towards women? Republicans could care less. Which makes sense when you examine the domestic relationships of Trump voters.